Dumped! Dammit!

[OldsterHolster]

Well, folks, I've been seeing a younger, very pretty, woman for a few months and walking around with a smile on my face. Heh, heh. She was a "head-turner," and I gained a lot of new respect over at the old-folks watering hole where I hang out. Alas, she's dumped me for a younger, good-looking, and probably better man; so I'm back to being single as well as old, fat, poor, and ugly. Heh, heh, heh.

(Actually, she is a lifelong friend whom I've known since she was thirteen years old. She's fifty, now, and she just lost her husband of thirty-two years, eight months, ago; so I think we both knew that I was just temporary support in a very trying time in her life. We're still friends, and it was fun, but I knew from the start that it wouldn't last. Oh well, life goes on, you know?)

So, onward to the technical part of this thread. There's another old gal closer to my age that frequents my bar. She comes with two of my pool-shooting friends, and her name is Jackie. She used to be a Playboy bunny in New York, I think; and she still looks pretty good. Anyway, she wants to get her first computer, and she has decided that I am the one to guide, and teach, her. Oh boy! Heh, heh, heh.

What should I get her to buy? I've got a Best Buy and a Circuit City handy, and I'd really like to just drive over and pick something up rather than buy online and have it delivered like I've always done for my own equipment.

I'm thinking something in the 2GHz processor range with 512megs of RAM and a burner and DVD drive. I don't want crap, but there's no sense getting anything fancy because she will never be a gamer; and she is very blonde. I've also got a spare monitor and speakers I could furnish her, so I just need a good box, keyboard, and mouse. There are several offerings in this range at both stores, and I was wondering if any of you have any advice or experience with them. Which would you choose between E-Machines, Compaq, and HP? Is is silly not to order something, online? I could, I guess, and do you have any recommendations? I know Gateway is having problems, although their equipment is OK, and Dell has a good reputation. I would like to keep the cost to around the $600 range.

I welcome all response, (even from other blonde bunnies. heh, heh) and I do want to advise her well. I'm sure I'll end up being her "computer daddy," at least for a while; so I don't want to put up with junk, myself. Help me out, and I'll keep you updated on the whole affair as it unfolds. Edward.

[Mara]

Actually I think you're the perfect person to guide someone on their first computer. You've built your own computer and have become quite the expert on compters. Go for it! :):

[Drewby]

For this situation, it is probably best to buy from a known company. It would suck to buy a bunch of parts, they don't work, RMA, all of that. For all of my friends now I reccomend a company unless they are as geeky as me.

Dell is good, but they come loaded with junk. I would reccomed finding a comapany that sells parts, and looking in their system section. Try ZipZoomFly.com. That way you get a good computer with just the essentials and you don't pay a boatload for it. :wink:

[DanTheManPR]

I'm thinking something in the 2GHz processor range with 512megs of RAM and a burner and DVD drive. I don't want crap, but there's no sense getting anything fancy because she will never be a gamer; and she is very blonde. I've also got a spare monitor and speakers I could furnish her, so I just need a good box, keyboard, and mouse.
That sounds good

Is is silly not to order something, online?
What I have seen is that what they offer in stores is 6-month-old tech, at the present prices. Maybe its different there, though, since I don't live on the mainland.

[Gaim Mastr]

Compaq SR1010V series


Processor 2.8 GHz Intel(R) Celeron(R)
Operating System Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition
HP Extended Service Plans 2-year HP extended service plan
Memory 512 MB DDR / PC2100 (1 DIMM)
Hard Drive 80GB 7200 rpm Ultra DMA Hard Drive
Primary CD/DVD Drive 16X max. DVD-ROM Drive
Secondary CD/DVD Drive 48x max hp CD-Writer Drive (48x24x48x)
Front Productivity Ports 2 USB + Front Audio Ports
Removable Storage No 3.5in. 1.44MB Floppy Drive
Graphics Card Integrated Graphics
Sound Card Integrated 5.1 Capable Sound w/ Front Audio ports
Keyboard and Mouse Compaq Home Professional Keyboard and Optical Mouse
Speakers Compaq 2-Piece USB Powered Speaker System
Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works 7.0/Money 2004/MSN Encarta Plus

Price After $50 Rebate = $578.98 (free shipping)

Note: The monitor, printer and surge protector are extra. Compaq systems are handled through Hewlett-Packard.


Should be more than enough power for a non-gamer to last her 5+ years. Also, with the 2-year extended service plan she can contact customer service any time she has questions. This helps to get you off the hook for those "where's the 'any' key" questions.

:wink:


You can get a similar system through Dell, but it'll cost you around $100+ more. Dell charges a lot for their service warranties and they rape people with their over-inflated prices on RAM.



And always avoid eMachines like the plague. Not worth the cheap quality and frequent problems.

Also, I don't recommend buying from stores like Circuit City and such. Mainly because their tech help is always pretty unreliable. Better to go straight through the main company, such as Dell and HP.

[MasterChief]

I've always shyed away from compaqs, don't know why. HP and Dell are excellent, although I prefer Dell. We've bought 2 dell machines in the last 3 years, never had a single problem. Stable, fast, pretty much idiot proof. One thing you have to consider though if you buy from a company like Dell, is that it will come with all sorts of crap installed on it that is sometimes very difficult to remove, and oftentimes it will significantly affect the performance of the machine. Just something to watch out for...

[DanTheManPR]

In the past, at least, I have heard so many awful, awful things about compaq. Maybe they've cleaned up their act, maybe not.

Like Gaim said, eMachines are cheap trash.

[Terry Penrod]

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Heya Edward -

I've recently looked at the all new eMachines in that spec / price range, read the comparative reviews for modestly priced desktops and three different friends have bought them specifically from Best Buy and Circuit City in the past six months. They love their new PCs and have had zero problems. Best of all, the new eMachines warranties are reasonably solid, the support is supposed to be good and you can now get certifed warranty work done locally.

I think the very latest eMachine that best fits your bill is the T3085 for only $619 after a $50 mail-in rebate (that I hear gets paid fairly fast)


Here are the details and a link to the official product page:

eMachines T3085

Multimedia Maximized

What does it take to be a leader? Consider the T3085. It's the PC that's designed with one simple goal - to go beyond all expectations by delivering unsurpassed power and performance. Everything about the T3085 exudes power. The state-of-the-art tower features: 160 GB hard drive, 512 MB memory, AMD Athlon™ XP 3000+ processor, 8-in-1 digital media reader, premium graphics card, 6-channel audio, 48X CD-Rom drive, plus a DVD +/- RW drive - all backed by eMachine's world-class support. Watch and copy your favorite action-packed movies while reveling in audiophile-quality sound. All this combined creates a white-hot synergy that delivers an unforgettable, high-velocity multimedia experience. This leader has beauty, brawn and brains. If all this doesn't make you want a T3085, it's time to hang up your mouse

Specifications

CPU: AMD Athlon™ XP 3000+ Processor

QuantiSpeed™ Architecture operates at 2.167 GHz

512KB L2 cache & 333MHz FSB

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition

Chipset: nVIDIA® nForce™2

Memory: 512 MB DDR (PC 2700) Expandable to 2 GB

Hard Drive: 160 GB HDD (7200 RPM)

Optical Drives: DVD +/- RW Drive (Write Max: 4x DVD+/-R, 2.4x DVD+RW, 2x DVD-RW, 16x CD-R, 10x CDRW; Reads 40x CD, 12x DVD), 48x Max. CD-ROM Drive

Media Reader: 8-in-1 Digital Media Manager (USB 2.0, Secure Digital (SD), Smart Media, Compact Flash, Memory Stick, Memory Stick PRO, Micro Drive, Multimedia Card)

Video: nVIDIA® GeForce4™ MX graphics (1 AGP 8x slot available)

Sound: nForce™ 6-channel Audio

Modem: 56K* ITU v.92 ready Fax/Modem

Network: 10/100Mbps built-in Ethernet

Peripherals: Premium Plus Multimedia Keyboard, 2-Button Wheel Mouse, Amplified Stereo Speakers

Dimensions: 7.25"w x 14.125"h x 16"d

Internet: AOL 3 month membership included, click here for details

Ports/Other: 5 USB 2.0 ports (4 in back; 1 in Media Reader), 1 Serial, 1 Parallel, 2 PS/2, Audio-In & Out

Pre-Installed Software: Microsoft Works 7.0, Microsoft Money 2004, Encarta Online, Adobe® Acrobat® Reader™, Microsoft Media Player, Real Player, PowerDVD, Internet Explorer, Roxio Easy CD & DVD Creator Basic, CompuServe®, AOL (with 3 months membership included**), Norton AntiVirus 2004 (90 day complimentary subscription), BigFix®

FROM:

http://www.e4me.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_T3085


NOT LISTED BUT CONFIRMED:

The standard Power Supply is only 250 watts. So if she ever wants to upgrade to a newer 128 MB DDR AGP GPU or higher, she will need to replace it with a new unit. However, even a name brand PSU is cheap these days and you could easily change it for her to avoid any installation fees - while being her PC knight in shining armor.

Cheers, Terry

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[Terry Penrod]

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In the past, at least, I have heard so many awful, awful things about compaq. Maybe they've cleaned up their act, maybe not.

Like Gaim said, eMachines are cheap trash.


Yes, HP has improved things at Compaq (still right here in Houston) since the buy-out.

But eMachines are NOT trash.

They are now a very well rated, moderately priced series of perfectly good desktop PCs for home users and the main parts are equal to or better than most. They have also improved their warranties and customer service by a wide margin and it's hard to beat their prices and availability.

eMachines originally came on very, very strong and literally invented the low price / good quality, retail home PC market. Then, they got greedy and tried to take some shortcuts in the secondary components and manufacturing process. They also had zero local warranty support for repairs. That is when their products went downhill fast.

But in the past year, they have completely turned things around, made vast strides to the specs, the quality, the customer reliability ratings and service support. So now it is perfectly safe to buy one.

Cheers, Terry

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[Tavo]

Go with the Dells or HPs.

[Ojnod]

Maximum PC raved new e-machines as a great PC to buy for a non-gamer. They said that they were a great value and when they compared it to their own custom built 500 dollar computer, the e-machine tore it a new one.

[Mr. Natural]

Who am I to be advising the great wise one on women?
If this is someone you really want to impress and enjoy building computers, I would go for building her one from scratch. But if your intuition is telling you that this relationship is not worth all that trouble, then get a pre-built. My only recommendation is making sure the system has 512 meg ram. It makes a big difference in performance over 256 with Windows XP. If she's not going to be gaming like us folks here you can get by with a nice low or mid range system.

One plus to a pre-built. The warranty. If you get her a Dell and the relationship sours, she won't have to call you.
However if you build it, you definitely want excuses to visit. :evil2:

[Gaim Mastr]

Until I read some convincing reviews by professionals, I have to stick with my own experiences and those of friends and associates that I know.... E-Machines ARE junk.

They use the cheapest quality parts for most of their hardware.

Take that 250W PSU for example. Woefully too little for components in that rig Terry listed. Heck, the XP 3000+ alone takes about 77 Watts. Most PSUs over-rate their output anyway, so that PSU probably peaks at around 230W. Now factor in a cheap PSU that's going to have to run at peak performance just to maintain. You end up with a PSU that produces fluctuating output. And that leads to drastically shorter component life and system instability, which is exactly what so many people experience with E-Machines.

Combined with cheap components in their hard drives, optical drives, etc. and you're looking at a system that breaks down after several months to a year, year and a half.

I'm guessing this lady would like her system to remain working perfectly for the next couple of years at least.

I do not know of a single person with moderate knowledge of computer systems who would consider spending their time & money on an E-Machine.

Maybe E-Machine has improved their warranties and their systems are better than they were overall. I don't know, since I've never read or heard evidence of that. But when I see them dropping a 250W PSU into a rig like the one mentioned above, my continued doubts seem justified.

Expect to replace that PSU with at least a 350W PSU right away to avoid problems. If memory serves, Edward had a problem with too weak of a PSU on his own system that caused a lot of headaches before it was diagnosed as the cause.


As for Compaqs, HPs and Dells, I've got experience with all of them. They have all proven to be good/solid quality. Compaqs and HPs generally don't have as much extra crap installed on them as Dells do.

My first Compaq died recently. And all signs are pointing to a fried CPU, which is an AMD Athlon 900MHz. But that system was bought over 4 years ago, back when the stock fans used by AMD were inadequate and their processors were known to run hot. I'd put a lot of heavy load on that CPU for a long time.

Still not good that it fried, but it's understandable. And the problem was AMD's fault, not Compaq's.

Compaqs are handled through HP, so you'll get a lot of the same components and support for whichever you ultimately use.

[OldsterHolster]

Ah, Paula, your words are kind; but I'm sure as hell no expert. I just use what little I do know as best I can. Thank you, though.

I'm going to check out your link, Drewby, but Gaim's and Terry's recommendations are both absolutely "right on," and I'm going to pursue them both, tomorrow.

Everyone's response is very interesting, and I feel like I'm learning something. Like MasterChief and DanTheManPR, I've seen too many people refer to their computer as "Crapaq;" and it was common knowledge that eMachines were junk; but things do change, and I've heard rumors that both these companies are now getting it right. I'm going to see what's available, locally, and I'll let you know what I find.

I really, really, appreciate the response, everyone; especially Gaim's and Terry's knowledgeable and "exactly right" recommendations. You guys are something else.

And Tim, like I told Mara, your words are kind; but I'm sure as hell not wise, just old. When it comes to women, I just get dumber and dumber; so advise me all you want. Heh, heh, heh. At this point, any relationship with my computer-bunny friend is just a figment of my ageing imagination, so; like I tell my pool-shooting friends, "The easiest way is hard, enough."

Have a good weekend, everyone. Edward.

[Terry Penrod]

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Good luck Edward and I agree with Tim - a quality, pre-built rig from an established company will at least provide you with an easy out if there are any problems with either the PC or the relationship down the road. Plus, investing so much time in building a custom system is nice, but will she honestly appreciate the effort and will she be comfortable having to depend on you personally for repairs, etc. in the future?

On the eMachines quality issue, I actually own one of the very first models they ever retailed - a now ancient back-up system with a 333 Mhz AMD K6-2 CPU and a small hard drive. (I did however make a few key upgrades initially for extra RAM, a decent Voodoo PCI card and a faster US Robotics modem.) Those items aside, It still works fine to this day well over 5 years later and except for the CD-ROM unit eventually going bad, nothing ever broke on it. Of course, shortly after I bought that box for a song at my local Microcenter, they went down the toilet fast and deserved the bad rep they had. But more recently, they have made big strides in all the important areas and now are well worth considering for an inexpensive, basic PC that is widely available at retail. At least to date, I have heard of no problems from three different friends who bought the the newer models and have read a number of good reports from reputable sources like PC Magazine and several good online hardware rating sites. So if they are junk, you couldn't prove it by me.

Anywoo, good luck and have fun!

Cheers, Terry

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[DanTheManPR]

Compaqs and HPs generally don't have as much extra crap installed on them as Dells do.

I've never used an HP, but I can vouch for the fact that Dells have a TON of crap installed on them.

PS: but otherwise, they are good computers. *but they rape you on RAM prices :-P

[O'C]

Hi Edward,

Hope I'm not too late to the party, but I'm going to cast another vote for Dell. Yes, there is a bunch of preloaded software, but at the level your friend will be using the PC at, she won't notice. Besides, it may come with several basic programs that she might find useful as she begins to experiment with using a computer. As an example, it might come with a simple photo editing program.

The only benefit I see to purchasing the system in a local store is if you can carry the computer into the store for free warranty repairs. You'll need to check out what the store's policy is.

I've had several Dell PCs and laptops since 1998 and I've been very happy with them. The few times I have had a problem, I've found their support folks to be pretty good. And they're not shy about sending replacement parts.

Is this the first time she will be using a computer or just the first time owning her own? If she's never used one before, the first thing you should teach her is how to play solitaire. Seriously. To play solitaire, you need to learn how to use the Start button, you get familiar with the Start menues, because you need to navigate through the Start menus to get to the game. Programs>accessories>etc. You then learn how to use the mouse to click and to drag and drop.

Teaching someone to use a PC from scratch and helping someone move. The two truest signs of friendship. :lol:

[MasterChief]

HP's generally don't have alot of crap installed on them? WTF?? I don't think so. I just got one recently and you wouldnt believe the crap it's loaded down with.

[Gaim Mastr]

Yeah, years back both E-Machines and Compaqs had bad reps. Terry's recent experience with E-Machines says that they have improved all around. My own with Compaqs & HPs shows me that those have also improved all around.

Maybe both companies are still struggling to shake off old sterotypes that may no longer apply to them.

Back when I bought that 900MHz Compaq system, it was their top-of-the-line rig. But, it shipped with a 100MHz motherboard and PC100 RAM, even though the 133MHz boards and PC133 RAM were fully available and on the market at that time.

THAT's the kind of crap both Compaq & E-Machines were at least previously known for. Now, after looking over what Compaq offers, I see that their Athlon XP Thoroughbred & Barton rigs come with the appropriate motherboards & RAM...... 266, 333 and 400.


I think that a few particulars are worth keeping an eye on when you ultimately decide on a system...

* Non-gamers and non-graphic artists generally don't need more than a 40 Gig hard drive. If she's mainly interested in surfing the Internet, using email, printing letters and looking at digital pics of family members, then a 40 Gig drive is way more than she'll ever use. Just keep an eye on the specs to make sure it's a 7200 RPM drive. For the difference of about $10 per 40 Gigs, it's worth it not to suffer the slower load times of those older 5400 RPM drives.

* Get a 3.5" floppy drive. Yes, their usefulness is waning. But not so much for average users who just want to carry a few documents or pictures from one machine to another. Seems like the less a person knows about computers, the more they still rely on those floppies for various uses, including saving backups of their text files. Why burn a CD when you can still save a large number of text files on a floppy and easily edit them any time and as often as you wish ??

* Since she's not a gamer, these 2+ Gig Celeron CPUs are a good way to go. Respectable power at a very cheap cost.

* Non-Gamers should find 512Mb of RAM more than enough for several years to come.

* Upgrade those ball mouse controllers with an optical mouse. Two buttons, and a scroll wheel. Optical mice are much easier to navigate with than the old ball ones, and don't require cleaning like ball mice do. For what should be no more than $10, it's worth the upgrade.

* Verify that the power supply is adequate. Everything may run great the first several months. But the current fluctuations will drastically reduce the life of other components, such as the CPU, motherboard, RAM, video & audio chips/cards, etc.

* She shouldn't need a video or audio card of any kind. The onboard chips nowadays more than powerful enough to view graphics on the Internet and from pictures. In fact, I know some people who have a 1-year old HP with only onboard audio/video chips who regularly play Asheron's Call, Battle Field 1942 and a list of other games. They have to keep the setting down, but the games are still playable and look decent enough.

* Things like a 56K modem and a network Ethernet card should come standard. This way she will be able to access the Internet with dialup or high-speed. What she uses now may change a year or so from now, so it's good to have both.

* It might be a few dollars cheaper to get a DVD-ROM & CD-RW combo drive instead of two separate drives. It also helps to minimize confusion, since there would only be one place to put any optical disk.

* She should get a printer for her system as well, but a scanner may not be needed. Scanners can be intimidating and confusing for people not familiar with using them.

* Try to look for a warranty that makes sense. One that provides for on-site repairs and 24/7 telephone support. She's bound to have A LOT of questions the first couple of months. And unless you're really bored, you may want to defer some of those questions to her tech support.

* You'll probably have to make sure she's got proper ergonomics going. Most new users don't anticipate spending long periods of time at their computers. But when they start typing up lengthy letters and reading emails, time flies by resulting in hurting wrists and an aching back. So make sure that her chair, keyboard, monitor and mouse are all comfortably accessible.

* After the system arrives, you'll probably want to set about cleaning out some of the garbage and cleaning up the desktop of all those 'free trials' and advertisements. Also, you might want to consider setting up two accounts for her on WinXP. One is the Owner account and another account that does NOT have Admin access and is NOT able to download & install things. This way, she can do most of her Internet surfing with the second account and not worry about accidentally installing spyware or other nasty stuff on her system.

[Terry Penrod]

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Good advice GM.

Also, if she wants a really good little all-in-one printer / scanner / e-fax / copier thingy. I bought an extra Lexmark PrinTrio X75 at Best Buy around Christmas on sale for under $80 (but you do need a USB 2 cord which is extra). It is cheap enough to use as just an everyday inkjet color printer for letters and envelopes but can do higher res photo paper stuff and at least has the other capabilties if she ever needs them. It also comes with some really easy-to-use troubleshooting and scanner / fax / OCR software. That model is now gone but there may still be some around and the newer ones I hear are even better, plus they are still pretty darn inexpensive.

As always though, any inkjet printer will gobble-up cartridges fast if you set the color on high, do a lot of heavy coverage output, etc. So for that stuff, I suggest simply going to any local PC output center (even Kinko's) and pay for large color jobs one at a time per page as needed. It also pays to buy good grade printer paper as it does not absorb as much ink and the savings are noticeable. You might also tell her NOT to buy into those super cheap generic inkjet cartridge clones as they do nulify your OEM warranty and many of them can screw-up the delicate ink jet ports, leak, jam-up, run dry faster or just plain not work. There are however some reputable online direct sellers of certified cartridges for all the major brands that discount. So at least that helps a little as they also (generally) have free shipping within the US and you can still avoid local / state sales taxes.

Last but not least, if the new system does not come with a monitor, ViewSonic UltraBrite 17" and 19" CRT displays these days are dirt cheap and readily availble all over the place - online and off. They have far better than average image quality for the price and do last a long time even with heavy usage. Best of all, they are so cheap that if they ever burn-out, it's just not that big a deal.

Cheers, Terry

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