Singles

[Chylde Roland]

Thoughts? (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/singles-flirt-up-your-life/516302p1.html)

[Fzoulcmbyl]

Pretty sick if you ask me,... the Sims are bad enough, if you need to get off on somthing like this, then you might want to look into some professional help.


:wtf:



Fzoul

[Nova]

It looks pretty retarded to me. It sure doesn't give gaming a good name.

[Mr. Natural]

I was waiting for someone else to chime in on this, but my thoughts tend to lean towards Fzoul on this. I don't know if I'd go so far as to label it as "sick" unless you're using the current popular slang terminology that folks seem to use now.
I have a feeling though that this game will become quite popular due to publicity and curiousity. We all know when censors and religous groups start getting involved to shut down a project it invariably becomes hugely popular. It all seems kinda strange to me though, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me that something like this would be coming.
Personally I never understood the popularity of "The Sims". This game just takes it one step further. I know there are a lot of Sims fans out there so I'll avoid mentioning my personal opinions on that game.

[Rob]

Is it ironic that just a few days ago a post was made for more adult gaming, then this is mentioned and immediately slammed by forum members. This game may end up being nothing more then a gimmick, but the road to more adult games has to start somewhere.

To note, I also know that adult game does not necessarily mean nudity and sex, but sex is human nature and an understandable course to begin with. I will again say, it has to begin somewhere.

[RHooks]

When I replied to the other thread I was referring to games with content that would appeal to adults instead of the average twitchy adolescent, not soft-core porn. There's a big difference.

[0x64657200 0x6A61636B616C00]

Well, ladies and gentlemen; I give you the first American version of a HUGE gaming genre in Japan; the 'dating sim'.

All with a side of Leisure Suit Larry.

[Rob]

To note, I also know that adult game does not necessarily mean nudity and sex, but sex is human nature and an understandable course to begin with. I will again say, it has to begin somewhere.

I understand RHooks what you said and the difference. The majority of game studios would cry at a mature rating for fear of destroying sales. It has to start slow and it has to begin somewhere. Riding on the coat-tails of the Sims is an easy way to start moving into that direction.

Leisure Suit Larry was a good, soft-core series. It can be done right. As more mature ratings get released and are met with some success, more companies will be willing to accept the rating, some will even embrace it. I feel it is then that you will start seeing mroe mature, adult content in games.

[Terry Penrod]

'

Sure, why not ween teenagers away from cartoons, candyland and fairy princesses with a good, old-fashioned dating sim that has a little nudity and some rather tame sex? It is, after all, what they think about every 3.2 seconds isn't it?

Perhaps if enough of them buy this kind of game in the other major (meaning non-Asian) markets, then maybe more big publishers will finally begin to see that mature (not lewd) content could also be used in games with real stories and challenging gameplay for older audiences everywhere.

As I've touted for many years now, just the current daytime soap opera and paperback romance novel market alone could easily support a hundred interactive titles a year - especially episodic ones. That is IF they write, design, package and market that kind of digital product properly to the exact same audience. All that has been missing in the past has been a basic familiarity with and trust of the technology by those people. Now, they have PCs and web connections by the millions and it's about time that each and every traditional market segment got its own special brand / genre to appeal to them specifically.

For more well-rounded adult gamers, a silly dating game or cheesey, interactive romance novels will not do. But we would appreciate some less candy-coated fare along with compelling original stories with interesting, well developed characters, absorbing atmosphere, great music, artfully designed backdrops and engaging gameplay. Give us those things and I'll bet we could finally convince several million more of our peers to try PC games just through word-of-mouth alone.

Cheers, Terry

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[Shardos]

I'm sorry, but even being a 17 year old male, I'd take cartoons, candyland, and fairy princesses over a dating sim, they tend to be a lot more interesting.

[Terry Penrod]

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Ever think that the game may be targeted at teenage girls and young adult women as much or more than it is geared for boys?

Cheers, Terry

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[Shardos]

I don't even consider those games though lol

[Terry Penrod]

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But the whole point is that there are hundreds of millions of females who will never want to frag scary monsters all night long or play the role of a gruff male warrior trying to "get the girl" while saving mankind from whatever evil entity of the day.

Young and old alike, most females still do have some differing tastes from most typical males in books, films, etc. and that should translate into games that are written, designed, packaged and merchandised specifically for them and to them. It is a massive, still mostly untapped interactive entertainment market that a few smart game developers and publishers are finally beginning to tap into in non-Asian markets around the world.

Like I said, now that PCs and fast web connections are getting super cheap and as common as dirt, even the more mature women who have traditionally turned to paperback romance novels and daytime soap operas can and will now also expand their horizons into the digital arena - assuming that someone is bright enough to cater to them and not exclusively to young male preferences. But more importantly is the trend to open-up the game market to people of all ages, both sexes and all tastes - including consumers who are raw beginners, casual players and hard core fans.

What we need to accept is the fact that just like books, magazines, movies, TV, music and everything else, there is plenty of room in this world for a full range of interactive entertainment products that cover every single type of person. Once you get past the fact that this automatically means that a huge number of titles will NOT be designed for you, the sooner you can move on and do what you already do with all those other mediums / venues - ignore the stuff that isn't your cup of tea and simply focus on what is.

Cheers, Terry

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[Jagndeke]

While the subject of mature rated games is at hand, here's another. Playboy The Mansion (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/playboymansion/preview_6098671.html) is previewed over at GS. Here's a snippet from the write up...

Yes, Playboy: The Mansion will include topless nudity, as well as sex. Hef, the bunnies, and any of your guests can and will engage in sexual intercourse just about everywhere throughout the mansion. Cyberlore's plan is that the manner this will be depicted will match what is shown in R-rated movies; their intention is to push the sexual envelope of the M-rating as far as it will go for this game. Interestingly enough, Arush and Cyberlore noted that they have discussed the matter not only with Playboy (who is apparently the driving force for the inclusion of as much sexuality as possible), but with Microsoft and Sony, who are purportedly supportive of the plan.

Personally I find nothing wrong with this type of game. Each to their own, ya know! :wink:

Either these games will be supported by the main stream gaming community and flourish, find a niche market and move to the back of the shelf, or disappear altogether. Either way it will be interesting to watch.

[Terry Penrod]

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Precisely.

It doesn't matter one little bit if you or I ever play that or any similar game. If it fills a void in the current marketplace, expands the total number of players and adds profits to the bottom-line and helps create more jobs in the industry, it will have a positive effect in the long run.

Of course, every pent-up old biddy and anal retentive busibody on earth will scream bloody murder and chime in with the same tired old gobbledeegook about the poor, innocent little children. That is utter crap because all commercially produced games carry a big bold age rating, reviews are avaiable for free all over the net with a single mouse click and parents damn well need to get off their lazy butts and police whatever their own kids are watching and playing period. It is also their obligation to lay down the law and enforce it - including harsh punishment when their children defy their rules and those of society in general. It is 100% their responsibility to do so 100% of the time. So they simply have no basis for any argument that supports censorship.

I see in the future the same breadth of interactive game choices as we have now for almost every other form of entertainment, fashion, food, etc. Every single slice of the human market should be covered and if you or I don't want to play a certain type of game or if we deem that it is just not appropriate for our own kids, then we are free to ignore them, play whatever we do prefer or approve of, STFU, mind our own damned buisness and worry about our own lives instead of poking our unwanted, long pointy noses into other people's private, personal affairs.

Cheers, Terry

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[OldsterHolster]

Well, sex does sell almost anything; and always has. While I, personally, wouldn't have any interest at all in a Sims-like game; I wouldn't mind at all if the shooters I like included more sexual content.

It seems to me that if blowing the bad guys into bloody giblets to save the world is acceptable, then getting laid as part of my reward should be, too. Heh, heh, heh. I guess this will give new meaning to the word, "scoring," huh? I can see it now. All the horny young males will play the game on "easy" setting, and; if you choose the "hard" setting, all the pretty girls will either be die-hard virgins, or lesbians.

These games that we play that give us so much pleasure are, after all, just different variations of virtual reality; and what kind of reality, virtual, real, or imaginative, doesn't have any sex in it? Without getting into the "rightness" or "wrongness" of this new development, I see it as just another step in the natural progression of things; and I'm comfortable with it. Edward.

[Impresario]

This begs the question at least in regards to erotic interactive entertainment for women whether a vibrating controller will become the norm? :wink:

[OldsterHolster]

Nah, you're forgetting the state and pace of technology. They're already working on "sensory" suits which you can wear and which will allow you to touch and be touched and feel it in the real world. Now, I'll have to admit that is a little scary. Besides, a vibrating controller would lead to some pretty eratic gameplay, I suspect. Heh, heh.

Of course, as is always the case; it will only be the rich people who can afford to have this new virtual sex, at first, so the rest of us will have to settle for the old way. Bummer, huh? Heh, heh, heh. Edward.

[Impresario]

Sensory suits...would that be considered a hard-wear upgrade? Since we are in a safe harbor for all ages can't take this much further but the imagination runs wild.:wink:

[Terry Penrod]

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I think that sensory suits are a big waste of time. Directly stimulating the same brain centers that dictate those feelings will give the user all the pleasure (or pain) he or she wants without the need for such expensive, elaborate gear.

But games aside, I also think that this kind of technology in the future could serve a number of more important purposes like probing sick minds to discover exactly how and why they malfunction and possibly to alter them without so many powerful drugs and years of psychotherapy, let alone radical surgery. This method might also be used for less dramatic things such as educational testing to determine aptitude for the arts, sciences, humanities, etc. along with a full range of vocational skills. This could be a very useful tool to replace traditional IQ and other tests that are already utilized as guidelines for teachers, parents and students. For more common, everyday applications, I could see us using direct sensory input / feedback to gain basic experience in certain areas that are simply not practical for everybody to gain in real life. Perhaps even in the affairs of the heart, human empathy and other things that would be easier to understand if we could briefly see the world through a variety of other eyes.

IMO, there could be a huge advantage if people were able to temporarily walk in the shoes of others without having to live their lives, suffer their pain and take all the same risks. Lessons could be more easily learned if we removed the filter of bias and ignorance by feeding a series highly realistic bio inputs to the brain that essentially replicated the feelings, attitudes and experiences of a full range of other people from the best to worst and back again.

Of course it would be imperative that we regulated the use of such a dynamic tool and administered it only through proper medical and educational channels. There would be risk of misuse as always but the possible benefits to mankind would far outweight them and in the end, there are limits to how much we could alter a person's innate self. For instance, we could not arbitrarily endow creative imagination, super intellect, the capacity to form entirely innovative ideas or specific talents. Those capabilities (potentinals / aptitudes) would need to already exist within each individual. But we could introduce new perspectives, greater appreciation and fundamental concepts outside a person's immediate life experience to help them be more well-rounded, more empathetic and to stir the imagination to open them up to new horizons.

Cheers, Terry

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[OldsterHolster]

Hmmm! I don't know, Terry. Sounds a little tricky to me. Kinda like Matrix style total mind control. Who decides what circuits to change or stimulate? I often toy with the idea, as do many science-fiction writers, that humans are frantically trying to create their own God; and we are destined to replace ourselves with machines. The "perfect" mind, obviously, could never be just one of the biological units we are stuck with; but the best of these might create something truly Godlike, someday.

Personally, I wish they'd hurry up so maybe they could re-program me to be young, rich, good-looking, and maybe even well-hung just for good measure. Heh, heh, heh. Edward.

[Terry Penrod]

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Then again Edward with biofeedback already well established in medicine and so many rapid advancements in computers plus huge strides on the near horizon in DNA research, nanotechnology, etc. we may actually be able to manipulate ourselves in many ways never before thought possible - both before and after birth.

How we choose to employ that new knowledge will be our ultimate test as a species. But I still have hope that we will also find a way to evolve emotionally and spiritually in tandem with the more obvious intellectual and physical advancements that we seem to focus on most of the time.

That of course ponders the very heart of our nature. Are we inherently good or evil? And if we are neither and we truly do have complete control over our collective destiny, then which path will we select when and if we ever develop the capability to reinvent ourselves? Will we maintain some degree of humility and compassion or will we turn to the darker side and doom ourselves to an eternity of greed, envy, hatred and violence?

All I know is that we are nowhere near perfect and the only way we will ever find out enough to achieve our potential is if we keep exploring every possibility and keep discovering new things that might give us a better chance to survive and grow as a singular species and as free individuals.

Cheers, Terry

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[DanTheManPR]

Did you see that thing where they have the monkeys controlling a robotic arm with their minds? That shows that a mind-machine interface is very possible. I don't think it will be very long before a mind-controlled mouse becomes a commercial product (they already have them for paralysis patients). The hard part I think wont be controlling machines with our minds (the brain can sort of re-wire itself to do that). sending information into our brain will be trickier, since we'd have to stimulate a very specific area. But there isn't a doubt in my mind that it wont be too long before that is possible.

[Dwango]

These games are for adults? Puh-lease.

These games are obviously aimed at the teen-aged sector. Its like so many R-rated movies, the majority of the goers are teen-agers. Just make a crappy game and slap on hard to believe sexual content, or voyeuristic views of false porno-sex. Kind of like that ridiculous game panty-raider.

An adult game to me will show far more. More pain, more depth, more complexities, more life, and more story. Sex in games definitely has its place, but for me its got to have some meaning. Heck, Planescape Torment was more an adult game than Singles, and there was no sex in it.

[Chylde Roland]

...snip...

Heck, Planescape Torment was more an adult game than Singles, and there was no sex in it.


Very good point, Dwango.

[RHooks]

Kind of like that ridiculous game panty-raider.


Hey. Don't be dis'n Panty Raider. That game is a classic.

:lol:

[Terry Penrod]

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These games are for adults? Puh-lease.

These games are obviously aimed at the teen-aged sector. Its like so many R-rated movies, the majority of the goers are teen-agers. Just make a crappy game and slap on hard to believe sexual content, or voyeuristic views of false porno-sex. Kind of like that ridiculous game panty-raider.

An adult game to me will show far more. More pain, more depth, more complexities, more life, and more story. Sex in games definitely has its place, but for me its got to have some meaning. Heck, Planescape Torment was more an adult game than Singles, and there was no sex in it.


Based on the above but not meant as a personal reply to you Dwango...

I'll bet that new PC titles like The Sims 2, Playboy Mansion and Singles will sell to young adults and older consumers who currently do not care about games geared for little kids, teenage boys or families with young children. These are people who probably play few if any PC games at this point - who also have little experience with the underlying technology but wouldn't mind playing something fairly easy to learn and based on a universally familiar commodity (human relationships / life / sex) that they can dabble in on a relatively modest system.

These same consumers will never invest the time, money and effort to become savvy gamers. But millions of them do have (unfortunately IMO) a voracious appetite for raunchy content and anything even remotely sexy. Other, more genteel minds who also have no interest in hard core gaming, violent content or high tech gadgetry may prefer tamer fare - like interactive romance novels, playable soap opera episodes or other games that appeal to them in a non-violent way, that require no real skill.

The point is that there are millions of people out there right now who are simply not being properly targeted by game developers and publishers. They are not all geniuses either and many have some rather crude tastes in movies, TV shows, books, etc. They watch daytime TV crap by the millions, read paperback romances by the zillions and turn to The National Inquirer for "news". They do not know anything about game patches or GPUs and they will never give a rat's patootie about them. They want something easy - many times a little bit sleazy - and they do NOT want to spend a lot of time or money getting it. However, millions of them are now connected to the web through modest PCs and would not be all that challenged by simple lifestyle game titles in a wide range of types for a very wide age demographic of both males and females of every description.

To take this concept another step further, I suggest, in the not so distant future, that non-violent lifestyle games designed for casual players will also be targeted at alternate lifestyle groups like gays and lesbians the exact same way that certain magazines, films, web sites, TV programs and a growing number of products are marketed today. This is simple, consumer target marketing 101 and if the game industry does continue to grow overall, they too will eventually be identified SPECIFICALLY as a potential profit center. In some cases, it will only be the packaging and advertising message that changes but there may also be some products made entirely for them.

If you doubt this, then you don't understand jack squat about the power of profit motivation in a caplitalistic society.

Cheers, Terry

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[Cherokee]

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Ever think that the game may be targeted at teenage girls and young adult women as much or more than it is geared for boys?

Cheers, Terry

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hmmm... think you could be on to something lol I was thinking oh..how neat ... but I'm just a girl lol :p:

[Dwango]

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I'll bet that new PC titles like The Sims 2, Playboy Mansion and Singles will sell to young adults and older consumers who currently do not care about games geared for little kids, teenage boys or families with young children. These are people who probably play few if any PC games at this point - who also have little experience with the underlying technology but wouldn't mind playing something fairly easy to learn and based on a universally familiar commodity (human relationships / life / sex) that they can dabble in on a relatively modest system.

These same consumers will never invest the time, money and effort to become savvy gamers. But millions of them do have (unfortunately IMO) a voracious appetite for raunchy content and anything even remotely sexy. Other, more genteel minds who also have no interest in hard core gaming, violent content or high tech gadgetry may prefer tamer fare - like interactive romance novels, playable soap opera episodes or other games that appeal to them in a non-violent way, that require no real skill.



Well, I hope you are right. But for now, these games seemed to be aimed to the "horny teen" market. I think the casual gamer that will get such a game for deeper reasons than to get off will be turned off by the shallow content. Already reviews are ripping the Flirt game to be a boring Sim knock off with getting sex as the only point of interest. I think most women would probably be happier with a far cheaper Romance novel.

Of course, this may be the starting point. But, just a warning, the Japanese have very heavily invested in such gaming. And most of those games are disappointing and rather boring beyond the Manga. Only rarely do they have a story that would apparently appeal beyond a male audience, with a plot of get all the girls standard. Kind of like a choose your own adventure sexual Pokemon.

Oh, by the way, I am no prude and don't get my country's anti-sex view. I just hope that quality will be an efort beyond the immediate titilating sales bump sex in a game might provide.

[Terry Penrod]

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It will take some more time for PCs and web connections the become as common as TVs in every home. But once the technology becomes second nature to even the most casual, older users, then publishers can start looking at new areas of the market to target and penetrate. If they do, they may simply decide to go the safest, most logical route - partner with well established romance novelists and soap opera stars to create a series of games that extend those series into the interactive world - possibly as online episodic titles.

There is also a very healthy soap opera digest industry and loads of romance novel book clubs with ready-made audiences who would love to actually play those stories, write fan fiction, extend their existing fan clubs, etc. However, unless this is a well coordinated effort specifically designed for that particular audience sector, it will fail. The games would need to be written, designed, packaged and marketed through the right channels to reach those fans where they live.

I know that sounds remarkably simplistic but you'd be surprised to learn just how many people in the entertainment publishing industry don't get it - especially neophyte gamecos that have zero experience appealing to romance novel and soap opera lovers.

Cheers, Terry

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