Sony ordered to halt sales of PS2

[Feuerwizard]

Sony corp. has recently lost a lawsuit to Immersion Corp. concerning patent rights to their dual shock controllers, and has been ordered to pay 90 million USD, and halt sales of all Playstation, Playstation 2 and Dual Shock products, along with 47 game products.

The Japanese entertainment giant is of course planning to fight back, and the resulting battle may well be an interesting one for future hardware and software designers. Immersion is suing on the basis that is holds all rights to 'vibrotactile effects' everywhere, regardless of how they are implemented. This is a worrying trend in the hardware industry, which has been forever trying to put patents on concepts rather than implementations.
If that doesn't sound wrong to you, imagine having to pay royalties for 'drink containers', 'sexual stimulation devices' or 'writing applications'. Some patents are just too far reaching and too open to various interpretations to be owned by anyone, and their mindless application by sleepy judges may inadvertedly stifle technological development.

[Mara]

Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Monday it was ordered by a U.S. court to halt sales of its blockbuster PlayStation consoles in the United States and pay $90 million in damages to a California tech company, Immersion Corp. (IMMR.O: Quote, Profile, Research), whose shares jumped more then 5 percent.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2005-03-28T145001Z_01_T72773_RTRIDST_0_TECH-TECH-SONY-DC.XML

:read:

[Bruenor]

You know... I just read a scathing article on these patent vulture companies too... Where companies will buy up or apply for all types of patents for the sole purpose of making money off royalties and/or lawsuits for patent infringement. The biggest trouble spot/moneymaker is tech patents as those who register the patents often have no clue what the patent is for so all types get registered...

Research in motion, a Canadian company that created the Blackberry Mobile Device, was ordered to pay 450 million dollars recently to one such company (that is privately held and in the companies own words operates out of the filing cabinet of its lawyers offices).

Looks like Sony got hit too... Ah lawsuit happy America, when you can't make money on your own... sue.

[Retribution.]

unbelievable

[OmegaBob]

Good! I always found Immersion's FF the best anyway.

btw - if someone can sue and WIN over the mouse cursor, then why not this?

[Bruenor]

btw - if someone can sue and WIN over the mouse cursor, then why not this?

That's the problem, if someone can sue over a mouse cursor and win, then why sue over ANYTHING? The mere fact that there are companies now set up to derive income solely from successful patent lawsuits, or "royalties" under the threat of a patent lawsuit speaks volumes of the problem.

[OmegaBob]

Yes, but (if memory serves) there were patent infrigements on the mouse cursor. If Sony violated patents, then good.

Like I said earlier, I've always been a fan of Immersion's FF... plus, I have a hatred for Sony (gaming, not electronics), so this does not concern me.

Finally - MS settled.

[mandrake]

I think this is bogus. Regardless of my feelings for companies, the ones who are going to get screwed over are the consumers. Technological progress is impaired just because someone is greedy.

lame

[OmegaBob]

Lets see....

1 - Sony is in violation of a patent, etc
2 - they choose NOT to settle
3 - the courts side with Immersion

Yet SCE is being defended by everyone here???

And I thought the Microsoft/Bill Gates haters were biased.... :rolleyes:

[Bruenor]

You're missing the point that I was making, just because a patent exists doesn't mean it necessarily should exist.

While 50 years ago patents typically covered mechanical and chemical advances, many applications today seek to protect high-tech innovations. Often expressed as lines of code, they can be virtually indecipherable to all but the most highly trained computer programmers. And this is partly what's driving the patent-lawsuit industry. Critics says the Patent Office is ill-equipped to deal with the complexity of new technology applications. It's difficult, they say, to determine what's really novel or truly inventive, causing the office to issue patents that should never have been granted.

This one is similar to this case (and also likely why MS settled)

Another concern is the way industry manages patents. As a matter of strategy, large corporations tend to amass patents on their own innovations, says Alexander Stack, a Canadian patent lawyer who's pursuing a Ph.D. in international patent law. These organizations know that their competitors, also patent stockpilers, are likely to make infringement claims against them. So, like kids with hockey cards, they agree to exchange licences. "The idea of building up your arsenal is to have something to trade," Stack says. "This is a defensive system." Vultures, however, don't create anything that might infringe another's patents, so there's nothing to trade. They simply come looking for money.

Here is the link to the rest of the article, detailing what big business patents are, and why no one in their right mind should ever see a case like this and just assume that one party was wrong and the other was right (unless, of course, you support stifling technological advancement).

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/business/article.jsp?content=20050328_102766_102766

[Fzoulcmbyl]

Isn't this pretty much the exact same thing that went on, with ppl buying up Internet Domain names? The sole purpose was just to make money off the sale..... and didnt the courts rule against these "domain name campers"?

Seems like the same type of thing is going on here.


Fzoul

[Bruenor]

Isn't this pretty much the exact same thing that went on, with ppl buying up Internet Domain names? The sole purpose was just to make money off the sale..... and didnt the courts rule against these "domain name campers"?

Seems like the same type of thing is going on here.


Fzoul

Yep, same type of deal.

[Gaim Mastr]

Last year all Realtors and agents were notified of some 1-person 'company' who claimed to hold the patent rights to any and all real estate transactions conducted over a telephone line. In other words, this jackass was trying to establish himself in a way that would force all real estate professionals to pay him a fee every time they made a real estate-related telephone call or faxed a piece of paper.

Same thing as with these other patent jerks Bruenor has been mentioning. Basically do their best to cast the widest net over an entire field and lay claim to anything they can manage to snag.

It's disgusting. The US Patent Office has been a disaster for a great many years, with ungodly waits to see if patents can go though. This new type of patent abuse is even worse.

[OmegaBob]

I wouldn't exactly call Immersion "jerks." Their FF technology is great -the best!

IMO, if they believe that their patents were stolen, they should have the right to pursue the matter... whichthey did and the courts agreed.

Also, it's not like this just happened, its been in the courts for a while now.

Sorry, but in this case, I'd rather side with the little guy than the mega corporation.

Finally, -too bad there aren't more FF mice.

[Bruenor]

Wow! I just checked out the settlement with MS through Immersion's SEC filings:

9. Long-term Customer Advance from Microsoft
On July25, 2003, the Company contemporaneously executed a series of agreements with Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft”) that
(1)settled the Company’s lawsuit against Microsoft, (2)granted Microsoft a worldwide royalty-free, irrevocable license to the
Company’s portfolio of patents (the “License Agreement”) in exchange for a payment of $19.9million, (3)provided Microsoft with
sublicense rights to pursue certain license arrangements directly with third parties including Sony Computer Entertainment which, if
consummated, would result in payments to the Company (the “Sublicense Rights”) and conveyed to Microsoft the right to a payment
of cash in the event of a settlement within certain parameters of the Company’s patent litigation against Sony Computer Entertainment
of America,Inc. and Sony Computer Entertainment,Inc. (collectively, “Sony Computer Entertainment;” the “Participation Rights”) in
exchange for a payment of $0.1million, (4)issued Microsoft shares of the Company’s SeriesA Redeemable Convertible Preferred Stock
that includes redemption features discussed below (“SeriesA Preferred Stock”) for a payment of $6.0million and (5)allows the Company
to sell debentures of $9.0million to Microsoft under the terms and conditions established in newly authorized 7%Senior Redeemable
Convertible Debentures (“7%Debentures”) with annual draw down rights over a 48month period.
Under these agreements the Company is required to make certain cash payments to Microsoft based on a settlement of the
Company’s ongoing patent litigation against Sony Computer Entertainment. As discussed in Note17, the Company intends to
continue its patent litigation against Sony Computer Entertainment. In the event of a settlement of the Sony Computer Entertainment
litigation under certain terms, the Company will be required to make a cash payment to Microsoft of (i)an amount to be determined
based on the settlement proceeds, (ii)a redemption of the SeriesA Preferred stock for a maximum of two and one half (21/2) times the
original purchase price plus any dividends in the form of additional shares of SeriesA Preferred Stock that remain unpaid plus any
accrued but unpaid cash dividends per share, (iii)any accrued but unpaid dividends on the SeriesA Preferred Stock, and (iv)any funds
received from Microsoft under the 7%Debentures.

Essentially it was in Immersions best interest to not settle with Sony, as they would have owed MS money. This wasn't a case of MS admitting they were wrong by settling, this was a case of MS making a tactical decision by settling and working the settlement to essentially screw over a competitor (since it was no longer in Immersions best interest to settle with Sony). What MS got out of the deal was sublicensing rights for the technology that essentially meant that for Sony to continue using the technology they would actually have to pay MS for the technology.

Yikes, no wonder Sony is fighting this one.

And THIS is your version of the little guy Bob?!?!? :rolleyes: Immersion essentially getting in bed with MS essentially means it no longer qualifies as "the little guy". :no: :lol:

[OmegaBob]

Heh! Good info and....

Good for MS! as I hate Sony (actually SCE) almost as much as I hate Valve. My multiple broken PSones still irk me.

Note: Sony's minidiscs rock! This is another reason to hate SCE for not using Hi-MDs for the PSP.

[One-Winged Angel]

You know who this is going to hurt in the end?

Us.

The gamers.

If Sony loses this, we'll probably end up paying for it by paying double the price for a controller, and a lot more for a wireless controller. Unless Sony takes the price on their own shoulders, we'll see the outcome of this one way or another.

[OmegaBob]

Or... just purchase a 3rd party controller that features FF by Immersion.

[Dwango]

This reminds me of the Monty Python's Meaning of Life, where the corporate "Pirates" are raiding sky scrapers from other scyscrapers. Good movie, that.