A marijuana question

[Eddie Ismail]

Do you really get high if you eat it, if so, how high, is it more potent smoking, or eating.

If I get this right, I might be $20 richer this weekend

[NotSoFast]

I have never done it myself, but I have LOTS of friends that do. They say that the weed has to be cooked to get high, as the heat releases the THC or something like that. Makes sense to me as you never see people dipping week like Skoal, just smoking it or cooking it in brownies.

[Feuerwizard]

Dunno, I tried it a couple of times (smoking from a pipe). It´s useless.

[Mr. Natural]

It´s useless.
Good advice. :shades:

[RHooks]

Shame on all of you!! I, of course, wouldn't know anything about this topic.

:shades:

[Gotanypop]

I have never used illegal substances in my life and this in no way is an encouragement for anyone to engage in this activity.

The lungs are a much faster and more direct route to the bloodstream than the digestive system. Therefore smoking would result in a higher concentration of THC in the blood. I presume the reason behind "weed-brownies" is that some folks like the high but hate the smoke. It is also far easier to hide your use by eating a brownie.

[OldsterHolster]

Well, I was in my twenties during the sixties hippie era, so I'm not going to pretend I don't have any first hand knowledge; and I won't even mention my biker days. Heh, heh, heh. You can't get high by eating it, and cooking it in brownies is iffy because too little heat won't release the good stuff, and too much heat will dissipate it all. Waste of good herb, if you ask me. A good pipe, or a hand-rolled doobie (the kind with a bulge in the middle) is the only way to go.

Now, my advice is do not smoke pot, or do any other illegal substances. Save yourself, now, and send it to me in a plain brown wrapper for proper disposal. Heh, heh. Edward.

[Chylde Roland]

lol, Edward!

:lol:

[Lou Cypher]

OldsterHolster pretty much hit it on the head, allthough a one hit Bong is the best way to go because none is wasted :wink:

Lou :globe:

[Gaim Mastr]

You'll get high smoking it or eating it. Certain cakes and such are treat in Amsterdam. Like GAP said, the lungs are the quickest way to the bloodstream.

Cooking it degrades its THC content. Heat and light degrade the THC molecules. So high temperatures will actually cook the THC right out. Another reason why low-heat foods are preferred, such as brownies.

Eating it is healthier than smoking it, because the water-soluble contents of the plant will pass through the digestive system. But your lungs have to create mucus to slowly clean that stuff out of your system. The tars & resins of the plant are water-soluble. This is why water pipes (bongs) will develop brown water when smoking it.

Typically, you need to eat more than you'd smoke to reach the same high. And since THC dissolves in alcohol, you'll get higher sooner if you wash it down with some booze.

Also, some people have been known to eat a lot of the stuff at one time, figuring that's what they have to do to get high. Most commonly this happens when they don't feel much 30 minutes after eating it. But it will hit you. And some people have gotten far higher than they'd intended because of this.

The body's reaction to it causes the heart rate to increase. Combined with the panic that you're suddenly super stoned, the heart races even faster. I've known some people who thought that they were going to die. Though no deaths from eating or smoking it have every been recorded. But people have passed out for 12 to 20 hours or so.
:wink:

[Impresario]

I have a friend :wink: who many years ago was known to occasionally ingest herb. In Amsterdam there are lounges that sell space cakes and hash brownies used to be common at certain types of parties in the USA. What Gaim says is accurate. Putting too much herb in the confection of your choice gets a person way too high. It emanates from your gut and spreads out across your body in waves. It's almost like being sea sick but stranger.

[Lou Cypher]

This is why water pipes (bongs) will develop brown water when smoking it.Anyone ever drink Bong water?, I have, yum, yum, yum!

Lou :globe:

[Cougar]

Shame on all of you!! I, of course, wouldn't know anything about this topic.

:shades:


im with u on that one hooks. :thumbup:

[Tavo]

Anyone ever drink Bong water?, I have, yum, yum, yum!

I dare you to do it again.

[OldsterHolster]

And don't forget. Just because you are paranoid, does not mean there isn't a conspiracy. Heh, heh. Edward.

[Torsion]

Actually, if you put pot in something fat soluble like butter, you can make it super concentrated. When you ingest it, nothing happens for about 2 hours and then you start to get an immediatly intense high that feels different than when you just smoke it.

Thats what my friend said because I dont smoke or use illegal drugs.

[NotSoFast]

I hear hash brownies are delicious. Scooby and Shaggy always would do anything for them.

[Terry Penrod]

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I hear hash brownies are delicious. Scooby and Shaggy always would do anything for them.


I tried some many a long year ago and yes, if made right, they are delicious - as are "plain" brownies. They're even better with fresh walnuts and homemade vanilla ice cream on top while still hot from the oven.

The effect is quite pleasant too - except for the fact that the more you eat, the worse the munchies get, which in turn makes you want to eat more of them and so forth and so on. The only saving grace is that after a while you're laughing too hard to actually chew any more food and then you simply get tired and fall a sleep.

IMO, eating the active chemical this way, in the safety of a private home, with good friends is a much better way to do it. Smoking ANYTHING does create a whole separate set of potential health hazards, can cause deadly fires and is a dead giveaway visually and to the nose... just in case there happen to be any prying eyes or nostrils about.

So if you do live in an uptight country where simple possession / consumption of any such substance is against the law, the above is the safest all around way to enjoy your little illegal activity.

Cheers, Terry

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[Eddie Ismail]

Thanks for the info, guys.

I still think it's ridiculous that weed is illegal in the states, while alcohol, which is far worse, according to my report and my psychology proffessor, is legal.

I did smoke couple of times before, but I don't make a habit out of it, and it's in the safety of my home, just to experiment. it was far more pleasant than the feeling you get when drinking. and faster to snap out of.

[OldsterHolster]

How do you guys show quotes in your replies? Nothing happens when I click on the little "Quote message in reply?" box.

Anyway, when Terry says, "IMO, eating the active chemical this way, in the safety of a private home, with good friends is a much better way to do it. Smoking ANYTHING does create a whole separate set of potential health hazards, can cause deadly fires and is a dead giveaway visually and to the nose... just in case there happen to be any prying eyes or nostrils about," he is being logical and sensible. There's more to the picture, though.

Before doobie was a word, and it was called grass, weed, 13, or maryjane; marijuana became the focal point of a huge, and quite delightful, social phenomenon. To me, it seems very, very, similar to what computers and the Internet are, today. It was a means of contact and sharing with friends and even total strangers, albeit on a much more physical, personal, and somewhat exciting, level; but the hand-rolled joint was, and still is, the easiest, and most efficient, means to achieve altitude. Simple, portable, and hidable counted, of course; but the physical act of passing this little smouldering artifact of pleasure around the circle was, in itself, a socially bonding experience. Sometimes a pretty girl would volunteer to give everyone a shotgun, and; if it was good sh*t, the coughing fits would travel around the circle like a wave in a stadium, to the laughter and glee of everyone. Everybody had their own personal style, grip, mannerisms, and expressions while partaking, but the end result, aided by the actual effects of the drug, was a very pleasant feeling of sharing and belonging and being at peace with yourself. We loved the aroma, too. Somebody would always be guilty of "Bogarting" the joint, and earrings and car keys would magically turn into roach clips; or somebody would make a "Jefferson Airplane." It was fun, folks. Heh, heh, heh. And, I personally, was never bothered by burning the house down. Pipes, bongs, and brownies were only a few of the many variations on the theme, but the hand-rolled joint was the mainstay.

Alas, these days, the magic's gone; and all that's left is the drugs actual, somewhat boring, physical effects. Given society's latest spin on the matter, you're better off eating a good chunck of chocolate, or working out, or something. The effects just aren't worth the trouble, danger, or guilt; now that society has decided that we can't handle this form of pleasure, sensibly, or safely. I must say, though, that you will never convince me that its only a bad thing. It is tightly woven into many, many, important and pleasurable parts of my earlier life; and, while I'm an innocent man, these days, I will always have a special place in my mind for that little weed that Mother Nature gave us.

Anyway, if you insist on doing wrong; do it right. Roll up a joint. Go hide behind the shed on a breezy day, and give your mucus membranes a workout. Don't burn anything down, though, and be careful of looking happy. Someone will get suspicious, for sure. If you come to your senses, though, don't forget: plain brown wrapper. Heh, heh, heh. Enjoy your life. Edward.

[Bruenor]

How do you guys show quotes in your replies? Nothing happens when I click on the little "Quote message in reply?" box.

Anyway, when Terry says, "IMO, eating the active chemical this way, in the safety of a private home, with good friends is a much better way to do it. Smoking ANYTHING does create a whole separate set of potential health hazards, can cause deadly fires and is a dead giveaway visually and to the nose... just in case there happen to be any prying eyes or nostrils about," he is being logical and sensible. There's more to the picture, though.

Before doobie was a word, and it was called grass, weed, 13, or maryjane; marijuana became the focal point of a huge, and quite delightful, social phenomenon. To me, it seems very, very, similar to what computers and the Internet are, today. It was a means of contact and sharing with friends and even total strangers, albeit on a much more physical, personal, and somewhat exciting, level; but the hand-rolled joint was, and still is, the easiest, and most efficient, means to achieve altitude. Simple, portable, and hidable counted, of course; but the physical act of passing this little smouldering artifact of pleasure around the circle was, in itself, a socially bonding experience. Sometimes a pretty girl would volunteer to give everyone a shotgun, and; if it was good sh*t, the coughing fits would travel around the circle like a wave in a stadium, to the laughter and glee of everyone. Everybody had their own personal style, grip, mannerisms, and expressions while partaking, but the end result, aided by the actual effects of the drug, was a very pleasant feeling of sharing and belonging and being at peace with yourself. We loved the aroma, too. Somebody would always be guilty of "Bogarting" the joint, and earrings and car keys would magically turn into roach clips; or somebody would make a "Jefferson Airplane." It was fun, folks. Heh, heh, heh. And, I personally, was never bothered by burning the house down. Pipes, bongs, and brownies were only a few of the many variations on the theme, but the hand-rolled joint was the mainstay.

Alas, these days, the magic's gone; and all that's left is the drugs actual, somewhat boring, physical effects. Given society's latest spin on the matter, you're better off eating a good chunck of chocolate, or working out, or something. The effects just aren't worth the trouble, danger, or guilt; now that society has decided that we can't handle this form of pleasure, sensibly, or safely. I must say, though, that you will never convince me that its only a bad thing. It is tightly woven into many, many, important and pleasurable parts of my earlier life; and, while I'm an innocent man, these days, I will always have a special place in my mind for that little weed that Mother Nature gave us.

Anyway, if you insist on doing wrong; do it right. Roll up a joint. Go hide behind the shed on a breezy day, and give your mucus membranes a workout. Don't burn anything down, though, and be careful of looking happy. Someone will get suspicious, for sure. If you come to your senses, though, don't forget: plain brown wrapper. Heh, heh, heh. Enjoy your life. Edward.

Best. Post. Ever.

You sound exactly like my Mom and Dad here though.

I must say though, that even though I haven't partaken in nature's gift since my daughter was born. When I did though, I was taught to "do it right" by my family and friends. Nothing would be better than going out camping, or to a cabin, with a bunch of friends and family sitting around the campfire, just sharing and laughing. Of course it does help when your family grows the stuff (not for trafficking of course).

[Impresario]

Ed, awesome post and you’re a fine example that one can inhale and still retain their brain cells into their more mature years. :wink: The problem as I see it is that anything we say positive on inhaling can always be misconstrued as promoting the use of some illegal stuff. There are a lot more scary substances out there now then in your or even my day. The time you so eloquently capture in your post was a bit magical and I even got to experience it somewhat at Dead shows in the 70's, or camping and hanging out with friends. I think the most important thing you point out is that it was all about community. These things were done with good friends in a positive environment listening to tasteful tunes. Today it seems the world moves too fast and kids are already in adversarial competition with their peers by preschool. I mean, when we were kids who ever heard of playdates and stuff like that. Kids actually got together and played unorganized sports. The world is way more anal now sigh...

[NotSoFast]

I still think it's ridiculous that weed is illegal in the states, while alcohol, which is far worse, according to my report and my psychology proffessor, is legal.


Revenues. Plain and simple. Alcohol takes resources to make properly. 99.99% of people don't have the time nor the will to make quality alcohol for personal consumption. Therefore, the government taxes the hell out of it and it stays legal. Marijuana, also called weed, grows like it's namesake. Anyone can grow it if they wanted to with very little effort. This means the government would make no money from it. So it's illegal and you and me go to the store and pay for alcohol. This ends today's economics lesson. :D:

[Eddie Ismail]

I love you edward, you crack me up :)
who said "OldGuy"s are not fun??

[0x64657200 0x6A61636B616C00]

M'eh, get in a car and do 120mph if you want to get light headed and an adrenaline rush. :)

If you want to get a real surge, do it with one of your half-crazy Aunts while she's singing Sinatra......

[DanTheManPR]

M'eh, get in a car and do 120mph if you want to get light headed and an adrenaline rush. :)
Pot is alot cheaper than the repair and medical bills that will inevitably follow.

[OldsterHolster]

So, the burning question (no pun intended, heh, heh.) is, how do you do the quotes in the little blue boxes? Edward.

[Tom Servo]

You use the word "quote" surprise surpise. Or you use the quote tags when making a reply. (the speech bubble)

/jackarse

[0x64657200 0x6A61636B616C00]

So, the burning question (no pun intended, heh, heh.) is, how do you do the quotes in the little blue boxes? Edward.



Or use the quote button at the bottom right of the message you want to include.









Quote Button ↓

[Terry Penrod]

.

Nice reminiscences of good times past Ed.

I didn't want to over-romanticize it though and as Eddie said, society in general has become a lot harsher, less socialable / civil, more competitive, less personal and more intolerant.

But as much as we like to romanticize the carefree bygone days of our youth, the sixties and seventies were not just all about peacefully smoking weed, listening to The Stones, The Beatles, Hendrix (or whoever), wearing love beads and making love to sexy, young hipppy chicks. There was also a great deal of social and political turbulence in this country and throughout the world. Viet Nam raged on against the will of the people, college kids were shot down by their fellow Americans in broad daylight on national TV at Kent State, Charlie Manson and his little family were doing their murderous thing in southern California, The SLA and even more radical groups were kidnapping people and robbing banks and yes, we did develop quite a drug habit here in The Land of The Free. The Civil Rights Movement was also still a violent, divisive affair, our leaders were assassinated - often - and the Cold War had reached global proportions with worldwide nuclear consequences a very real possibility at almost every political turn.

So in the end, although we have lost some innocence and civility along the way, and still have many serious problems left to overcome, the world is probably better off now than it was then and certainly better than it could have been. If someone wants to smoke a little weed or eat hash brownies and listen to good tunes while supporting a monstrously munchie habit with a few close friends in the (relative) safety and privacy of their own homes, that's just fine with me.

Cheers, Terry

.

[OldsterHolster]

You use the word "quote" surprise surpise. Or you use the quote tags when making a reply. (the speech bubble)

/jackarse


Gee, thanks. Guess I should have spent another ten seconds to figure it out and protected my dumbness, huh? Maybe there's not as many brain cells left as I'd like to believe. Heh, heh. Edward.

[OldsterHolster]

.



But as much as we like to romanticize the carefree bygone days of our youth, the sixties and seventies were not just all about peacefully smoking weed, listening to The Stones, The Beatles, Hendrix (or whoever), wearing love beads and making love to sexy, young hipppy chicks.
.



True, but that was the part I liked. Heh, heh. Never wore any love beads, though. Edward.

[Terry Penrod]

.

True, but that was the part I liked. Heh, heh. Never wore any love beads, though. Edward.


It was a lot of fun wasn't it Ed?

And to think, we didn't even know what a Mac, a PC, the web, a floppy disk, a CD, a DVD, a cell phone or even a fax machine was back then.

We're not old, we're ancient. But at least we still have our memories... and our games

Cheers, Terry

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[Gary V.]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think smoking pot is cool. To me drug usage is a sign of weakness and I have no respect for people who abuse drugs. If you're looking for social acceptance go to church or volunteer somewhere. Our country doesn't need another pothead.

[Ojnod]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think smoking pot is cool. To me drug usage is a sign of weakness and I have no respect for people who abuse drugs. If you're looking for social acceptance go to church or volunteer somewhere. Our country doesn't need another pothead.

Yea I was thinking the same, but not that harsh :p Maybe just the first sentence.

[Gary V.]

There are kids at my school who are "just smoking a little pot" who have gone from decent student athletes to failing all their classes. They have become lazy, disrespectful, and are not the least concerned with their future. So I have little tolerance for drug usage and those who promote it even slightly. I most certainly have a harsh outlook on drug abuse. I don't agree with the "cool" spin of this thread.

[Terry Penrod]

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Agree with it or not, condone it or not, smoking (unlaced) weed and/or drinking alcohol moderately has been very common around the world for longer than all of us here put together and then some.

Fact is that millions of people who drink do so responsibly and many who smoke pot are even more cautious. A great many never come close to being serious drug addicts or violent criminals and many are quite successful in a wide range of professions.

Of course, I am referring to mature adults who have come to realize their limitations and settled into a rather quiet, peaceful lifestyle with good careers, family raising, voting and tax paying as their everyday routine. But for younger people who are pointedly trying to rebel and get as high as possible in order to escape, well most of them too will eventually grow out of it. For the unlucky ones that don't, it's hard to say if there was a way to help them in the first place. Many are hellbent on self-destruction and others simply do not care if they even amount to anything. Even worse, there are indeed criminal elements (both peers and older people) out there who prey on these weaker kids all the time. Those are the real culprits in all of this - along with a sad legacy of social failures that our culture seems to thrive on.

Fix those things and the underlying problems for 99% of all people prone to this kind of behavior would dissipate within a single generation.

Cheers, Terry

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[Gary V.]

I can think of lots of things that have been around for a long time. Murder, prostitution, theft.....just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it right. Drug usage is indefensible, say all the social mumbo-jumbo you want.

[Bruenor]

Drug usage is indefensible, say all the social mumbo-jumbo you want.

I hope you think about that the next time you crack open an alcoholic beverage then. And before you mention legalities, just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

[Torsion]

Still, Gary is right though in my opinion. The average teenager can not handle drugs and has no semblance of reponsibility. Its probably a good thing its illegal. However, I have some friends that smoke lots of pot and are incredibly sucessful academically, socially, and athletically. It all depends on the individual. I agree with Gary though because those guys are exceptions and Marijuana can cause lots of issues for kids who cant deal with the responsibility.

[Bruenor]

Still, Gary is right though in my opinion. The average teenager can not handle drugs and has no semblance of reponsibility. Its probably a good thing its illegal. However, I have some friends that smoke lots of pot and are incredibly sucessful academically, socially, and athletically. It all depends on the individual. I agree with Gary though because those guys are exceptions and Marijuana can cause lots of issues for kids who cant deal with the responsibility.

In this context, I agree with you. However, it is not the activity or the substance that is necessarily dangerous, but the person using it. The same can be said about alcohol and gambling. We all know or heard the horror stories that have occurred from the irresponsible use of these (completely legal in my area) activities, but yet many responsible individuals engage in gambling or have a few drinks without a problem. So, because there are deaths and suicides resulting from the legal use of alcohol and gambling (far more than the recreational use of marijuana I might add) do we make these activites illegal as well?

[Gary V.]

I hope you think about that the next time you crack open an alcoholic beverage then. And before you mention legalities, just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

Not much of a drinker. It's been years. I don't want it in the house with my 9 year old daughter. My wife's father is an alcoholic; she doesn't want alcohol around. You are correct, alcohol is very destructive. Besides, I didn't come on here touting the joys of alcohol, so your quote is misplaced.

[Bruenor]

Not much of a drinker. It's been years. I don't want it in the house with my 9 year old daughter. My wife's father is an alcoholic; she doesn't want alcohol around. You are correct, alcohol is very destructive. Besides, I didn't come on here touting the joys of alcohol, so your quote is misplaced.

You'r right it has been. I shouldn't have referred to you specifically, instead I should have asked the question if you viewed alcohol was in the same light as marijuana. I also addressed this a little more in the post above yours.

I do respect your decision, especially since you have your daughter and you are doing what you believe is important. I have made the same decision with my 2 year old daughter, which is why I haven't used marijuana, nor do I drink heavily at home since the day she arrived in my life despite the fact that a very safe and reliable source is very accessible to me.

[OldsterHolster]

Gary, whether you believe me or not, I understand where you are coming from; and I apologize for arousing this reaction from you. Make no mistake about it, I do not advocate disrespect, laziness, or "sorriness" in any way, shape, or form; but, in this world of infinite excuses, poor old pot shoulders a whole lot of the blame for just plain old lameness in some people. Face it, there's a world of a**holes out there that can't do any damned thing right, it seems; much less alter their conciousness in any positive way.

I guess I was out of line, and I even started to forego the whole post because of this kind of reaction, but I guess I was just trying to show that things are not always what they are made out to be. You do realize that we are all brainwashed, constantly, don't you. Last year, eggs were bad; this year they are OK. The malady du jour of the eighties was indigestion, and Tagamet was the "in" drug to be taking, but then allergies took over; and little purple pills were necessary. The latest craze is CARBOHYDRATES: Gimme a break! Its just really hard to know what to believe, and I just wanted to share a different viewpoint on a controversial subject that's been around forever.

Some idiots cause death and destruction when they get behind the wheel of an automobile, but we don't make cars illegal. A triple caffeinated double latte' fancy coffee thingy probably alters one's conciousness more than smoking weed, but coffee is still legal, and doesn't ever get blamed for the road-raged hothead weaving down the Interstate. Why? Because we are all told what to believe is right or wrong, and most people just accept it all; lock, stock, and barrel. Life is not nearly that simple.

Anyway, sorry if I offended. It was just a perspective on how something now considered "bad" was "good" under different conditions and at another time. And, while I might have shed a positive light on a certain substance use, I have never advocated abuse in any way; of any thing. Every damned thing can be abused by someone, somehow. The "Just a little pot" commercial that you seemed to mimic should be replaced by "Just a little meaness," or "Just a little stupidity," in my opinion.

OK, enough. Be assured that I'm not advocating anything, especially to young people, but I assume everybody reading my silly, old-man, posts are adults and can hear what I have to say without being led down the evil path I've followed. Heh, heh, heh. Take care. Edward.

[Terry Penrod]

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I can think of lots of things that have been around for a long time. Murder, prostitution, theft.....just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it right. Drug usage is indefensible, say all the social mumbo-jumbo you want.


Try again Gary.

You're self-righteous "argument" falls as flat as your analogies and your indignant, little protestations are as shrill and hollow as can be.

Casual, moderate pot smoking by mature, responsible, (otherwise) law abiding, adult tax payers - in the privacy of their own homes and to which I specifically referred - is first of all none of your damned business and should never have been made illegal to begin with.

It is inflexible, closed minds prone to panicky, slippery slope thinking that keep it illegal in the face of gross hypocrisy in a nation where 100 proof booze and tobacco products sell like candy, and as a direct result where chronic alcoholism, drunk driving deaths, heart disease and lung cancer run rampant.

If you actually want to stand up against something with dire consequences for millions of people in this country, every single day, then I suggest you turn your attention to one of those problems. They are after all a hundred times more common and many times more serious.

But even then, harsh, rigid diatribe will get you exactly nowhere in a debate, let alone in changing minds, common practices or criminal laws.

Oh, and I also believe that legal but highly regulated prostitution with frequently required blood tests and full taxation would be far better than what we have.

Murder and theft should remain illegal. But what two consenting adults do in private, that effects nobody else is nobody else's business including the government, law enforcement agencies and the courts. And what they personally choose to consume during that time (within reasonable and carefully outlined limits) is also their business and their business alone.

On all such issues, I draw crystal clear lines between personal privacy, individual freedom of choice and the unjustifiable, outright invasion of them. So should you.

Cheers, Terry

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[Eddie Ismail]

Gary, I'm sorry if you view all pot smokers as lazy morons, who get high and go on killing sprees. but believe it or not I'm a student with a decent GPA, employed, pay taxes, and enjoy a healthy social life.

as I mentioned earlier, I did it couple of time, and not for acceptance, believe me I'm popular enough, and every weekend I have at least 3-5 plans for a night out.

and believe I saw first hand the effect alcohol leaves on people, and it's not pretty. if I'm gonna do something stupid, I'd rather it be pot rather than alcohol, since I know when I had enough.

[Terry Penrod]

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Still, Gary is right though in my opinion. The average teenager can not handle drugs and has no semblance of reponsibility. Its probably a good thing its illegal. However, I have some friends that smoke lots of pot and are incredibly sucessful academically, socially, and athletically. It all depends on the individual. I agree with Gary though because those guys are exceptions and Marijuana can cause lots of issues for kids who cant deal with the responsibility.


But who here is even hinting that kids should be allowed to smoke weed, drink booze, buy cigarettes of anything else that is currently illegal for under-aged people?

We all have to live with certain restrictions until we reach a specific age.

What we are discussing (at least some of us are) is the wholesale outlawing of a very common drug for an entire society with hundreds of millions of people, from birth-to-death in any and all circumstances. To me, that is totally unsupportable, paranoid to the Nth degree and smacks of biased, small minded self-righteousness. In today's America, it is also highly hypocritical and totally unrealistic.

Cheers, Terry

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[RHooks]

The "whacky weed" and alcohol are not "good" or "bad". They are inanimate objects that our culture insists on imbuing with human characteristics. Bruenor is closest to the mark by realizing what is done with or as a result of using them that makes them good or bad, not the objects themselves. There are people that can handle the use of things responsibly and those that cannot. The biggest distinction is that Mary Jane is against the law of the land, so I cannot condone it. If it was legal my views might be different but as I don't smoke anything, probably not. That, however, is a personal preference.

[Torsion]

Terry, in my opinion the drug should be illegal because there are certain people who can not handle the responsibility. Even if the vast majority can, there is still those that can not, and they must be taken into account. I agree that in the privacy of a home, it is not the governments responsiblility to tell people what to do. I find that kind of thing invasive and a perversion of the rights of the government.

However, when something that people do in private starts to have an effect on the general populace, it becomes the governments responsibility. You do realize that marijuana is a major cause of automobile accidents right? I would hardly call that a "concenting behavior between two adults in private". If the drug is resulting in deaths for innocent people, than the government has every right to restrict it's use in my opinion.

Although, since most incidents involving marijuana take place amoung minors, it makes sense to me to just put a 21+ age restriction on it. With mature adults, marijuana has much less negative effects and severity of impairment than alchohol does. Still, the drug would need to be monitored because no one really knows what kind of effect the drug would have on our society. Unfortunately, the way the government watches over alchoholism, I doubt that they could ever control its use.

[Gary V.]

What a joke. The man who thinks he knows everything calling me self-righteous.

Sorry, Edward, I sure didn't want to attack you personally. Some people think pot is cool, some don't. I felt the need to represent the side which doesn't, especially since I am seeing first-hand the effects.

I don't have the time or inclination to engage in a drawn out debate/insult fest with Terry. However, I'm sure many folks here would find it entertaining. It's senseless anyway. Nothing, absolutely nothing Terry says will change my mind. I will not change his. The bottom line is I care about the kids I work with and it tears me up to see them turn into losers because of a stupid plant.

But really, defending drug use is just ludicrous. Call me anything you wish, Terry, I really don't care.

[Gary V.]

By the way, Edward is such a cool, classy guy. He could have taken my posts personal and didn't. Thanks Edward. If I was going to smoke anything with anyone I would want it to be with you. :shades2: :):

[Impresario]

Those who articulated that they had at some point smoked pot I thought were relatively mild in this thread - so as not to come off as endorsing its use by minors etc. What I've always found perplexing is the notion held by some that being 100% straight is some sort of morally higher plain.

If anything human history illustrates the desire to alter ones perception has been a common theme through the ages. From the simplest examples of children taking delight in spinning around and making themselves dizzy to tankards of mead in the manor house, to the Native American Church in the U.S. having the legal right to use peyote in their religious ceremonies. Altering perception has been tied into spirituality since the dawn of time. As imaginative creatures humans enjoy altering their senses for pleasure. Going back to the Greeks Dionysian ecstasy was the counterpoint to Apollonian order. Dionysus the god of wine represented the primal dancing spirit. Narco trafficking and the utter destruction it causes perverts the simple human desire to transcend and seek sensory pleasure.

Personally, for quite some time I've been a non-smoking vegan who very infrequently might have a glass of wine heh. So I'm about as straight as they come but I still recognize that altering perception is a ancient natural human desire.

[DanTheManPR]

To no particular person:
Boy, people really do feel strongly about this issue. Just make sure to think about the issue - maybe you ARE wrong.

[OldsterHolster]

Excellent post, Impresario! I wanted to pursue that train of thought, myself; although I couldn't have done half the job you did, but I decided I'd probably said enough and should just keep my mouth shut. Heh, heh.

Since you have, however, I would like to add one more thought. What you so elouquently describe is commonly thought of as joy, happy, pleasure, fun, high, safe, improved, wiser, and all the other ways to tag "feel good." Virtually everybody who is wired right wants to "feel good," and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Its how we go about it that's complicated.

From newborn, forward, everybody knows "feel good" and pain. We start with these biological BIOS circuits which detect that we have the means to strive for "feel good" if we do the right thing. Cry, and maybe we'll get something good to eat and "feel good," again. We grow and learn that, not only are there easier or better ways to get what we want, but there are also new, and wondrous, things to want. I don't have to cry, any more, when I can just ask politely for food. It all starts out pretty straightforward and simple, although; even in the beginning, there are a myriad of variations on the theme, and nobody gets programmed perfectly.

By adulthood, it get infinitely more complicated, (sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll) but hopefully, everybody has learned that some forms of "feel good" are not so good, after all. It gets tricky trying to pick the right one to strive for, and we also learn that there are both right and wrong paths to choose to your destination. You learn that you can cheat a little, and get some of the feel good for free, and this is the glitch in your circuits that just might crash your whole system, some day; and its my reason for not advocating drug use in any form, especially by young people who have their life ahead of them. Its cheating, and its your own damned self that you are doing it to. Its dumb.

Getting high is OK, but work on the real highs, don't cheat. Make your body strong and be able to run for miles, if you want to experience a perfect example of a "feel good." Get smart, work hard, and do right and you'll have another flavor of the real stuff; self-esteem. I know, boring crap from an old man, but my point is; that, from my vantage point in time, I can clearly see that illegal substances, aside from the hoopla, are mostly just a waste of your precious time. There's real "feel good" out there, so why settle for the cheap imitation? Its usually one or the other, too.

Now, having said that; I must add the the complication factor never tires, and I am a drug user, myself. I need that cup of coffee in the morning! I take my aspirin for my heart, and me and my buddyWeiser meet regularly to shoot pool and "feel good." Heh, heh. Where's the line, and what are the facts? I think getting high should be a required course in some part of everyone's education, as part of the course in how we all chemically manipulate our bodies and minds our whole life, and; if it were, I think people's mental image of pot would be changed. Hell, it would probably be a teaching tool. The smart ones would learn to skip it and the cup of coffee in the morning, and chase one of those real "feel goods," instead.

You mention that you are somewhat boringly straight, but the secret is that you are surely enjoying a wealth of feeling good that many people don't know exist as a result of your self-discipline and lifestyle decisions. Good for you. And, Gary, thank you for your nice E-mail, and don't you ever hesitate to state your thoughts and opinions. I welcome them, and am not threatened in any way. In this case, as I said, we think alike; its just the technicalities we're talking about.

OK, its Friday night and my buddyWeiser is waiting for me over at the watering hole. I've enjoyed this thread, but enough about whacky-weed. I know I've got a lot more important things in my life than even discussing it, any more, so I'll be looking for a new post from somebody to reply to. Heh, heh. Have a great weekend, folks. Edward.

[Terry Penrod]

.

What a joke. The man who thinks he knows everything calling me self-righteous.

Sorry, Edward, I sure didn't want to attack you personally. Some people think pot is cool, some don't. I felt the need to represent the side which doesn't, especially since I am seeing first-hand the effects.

I don't have the time or inclination to engage in a drawn out debate/insult fest with Terry. However, I'm sure many folks here would find it entertaining. It's senseless anyway. Nothing, absolutely nothing Terry says will change my mind. I will not change his. The bottom line is I care about the kids I work with and it tears me up to see them turn into losers because of a stupid plant.

But really, defending drug use is just ludicrous. Call me anything you wish, Terry, I really don't care.


The following is the only joke in this thread Gary.


"I can think of lots of things that have been around for a long time. Murder, prostitution, theft.....just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it right. Drug usage is indefensible, say all the social mumbo-jumbo you want."

1. It was made in direct reply to me.

2. It was curt, insulting and presented no substinative counter argument at all. Worse, the scant argument you did offer was based on totally irrelevant analogies.

3. It expressed a totally inflexible point of view that left zero room for debate.

4. It was anything but "classy".

5. It was the personification of self-righteouness. I suggest you look it up and apply it to directly to your own quote above. You will see that the term fits you like a glove.


All of which I pointed out, all of which are undeniably true based solely on what you wrote in your reply to me.

In summary, I was simply calling you exactly what you just proved yourself to be in that statement. However, in making my reply, at least I bothered to add some additional points and elaborations that were and still are directly related to the primary subject of this thread.

I see that at this point you are not interested in actually discussing the topic at hand, let alone in a mature, civil way.

Cheers, Terry

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[Gary V.]

I agree, Edward. Case closed. I will not post anymore on the subject. Fun thread, though. I like getting into heated discussions and sometimes pursue them a bit more vehemently than I actually feel because I get caught up in the excitement. Apologies to anyone whom I may have offended.

[Gary V.]

.




The following is the only joke in this thread Gary.


"I can think of lots of things that have been around for a long time. Murder, prostitution, theft.....just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it right. Drug usage is indefensible, say all the social mumbo-jumbo you want."

1. It was made in direct reply to me.

2. It was curt, insulting and presented no substinative counter argument at all. Worse, the scant argument you did offer was based on totally irrelevant analogies.

3. It expressed a totally inflexible point of view that left zero room for debate.

4. It was anything but "classy".

5. It was the personification of self-righteouness. I suggest you look it up and apply it to directly to your own quote above. You will see that the term fits you like a glove.


All of which I pointed out, all of which are undeniably true based solely on what you wrote in your reply to me.

In summary, I was simply calling you exactly what you just proved yourself to be in that statement. However, in making my reply, at least I bothered to add some additional points and elaborations that were and still are directly related to the primary subject of this thread.

I see that at this point you are not interested in actually discussing the topic at hand, let alone in a mature, civil way.

Cheers, Terry

.
:rolleyes: Something about pots, kettles, and black comes to mind.

[Terry Penrod]

.

Terry, in my opinion the drug should be illegal because there are certain people who can not handle the responsibility. Even if the vast majority can, there is still those that can not, and they must be taken into account. I agree that in the privacy of a home, it is not the governments responsiblility to tell people what to do. I find that kind of thing invasive and a perversion of the rights of the government.

However, when something that people do in private starts to have an effect on the general populace, it becomes the governments responsibility. You do realize that marijuana is a major cause of automobile accidents right? I would hardly call that a "concenting behavior between two adults in private". If the drug is resulting in deaths for innocent people, than the government has every right to restrict it's use in my opinion.

Although, since most incidents involving marijuana take place amoung minors, it makes sense to me to just put a 21+ age restriction on it. With mature adults, marijuana has much less negative effects and severity of impairment than alchohol does. Still, the drug would need to be monitored because no one really knows what kind of effect the drug would have on our society. Unfortunately, the way the government watches over alchoholism, I doubt that they could ever control its use.


The logic in your first paragraph above simply holds no water in this discussion Torsion.

First of all "retricted use" and age limits for pot have already been specifically mentioned (by me) in this thread. But we are not talking about mere age restrictions, we are talking about serious felony crimes punishable in many cases by long prison terms. That is the reality of our current pot laws and it is an outrage.

Secondly, alcohol is many times more dangerous, addictive, family destructive, job / career destructive, life destructive (potentially lethal to the user) and the direct cause of many, many more traffic deaths in this country every year than marijuana ever was.

Many people can and do drink responsibly. Many (not just a few) do not.

Therefore, by the exact same logic, alcohol should be outlawed across-the-board at once. Moreover, since it has and continues to cause so much more damage, pain, injury and death, it should carry a FAR heavier felony prison sentence than simple pot possession.

If we as a society can address that one point - fully, then we can talk about the comparatively mild repurcussions of pot smoking on individuals and on society as a whole.

From there, we can put things into proper perspective and talk about why having one legal and the other not is totally hypocritical and counter-productive. We can also discuss how the above, very common, evasive and irresponsible argument is so destructive on a national scale - because it completely avoids one very serious issue in America today by averting attention away from the real problem while trying to pawn-off blame on something that has far less consequences for all involved.


FYI: To anyone interested in this subject who is not already familiar with the possible risks of marijuana use, here is a link to a very simple set of Q&As that covers the basics. This information is on the official NIDA web site and available for free to one and all.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteens.html


Cheers, Terry

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[Terry Penrod]

.

:rolleyes: Something about pots, kettles, and black comes to mind.


Stop being so insipidly childish Gary.

If you actually have something to say about this topic, do so.

If not, please keep your undignified little comments to yourself.

Cheers, Terry

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[Gary V.]

You just can't stand it if someone actually stands up to you, Terry. Alas, I have grown bored with this whole thread and am moving on to other pursuits. I respect your opinion, your prowess as a writer, and your tenacity as an adversary. Personal insults aside, it has been fun. Apologies if I have impugned your dignity.

[Terry Penrod]

.

You just can't stand it if someone actually stands up to you, Terry. Alas, I have grown bored with this whole thread and am moving on to other pursuits. I respect your opinion, your prowess as a writer, and your tenacity as an adversary. Personal insults aside, it has been fun. Apologies if I have impugned your dignity.


Thanks for the backhanded apology Gary.

Your latest snide remark aside, let's be perfectly clear about your participation in this discussion.

You have not stood up to me or anyone else - yet. All you did was make one curt, insulting little reply to me and then you failed to back it up when confronted. Since then, all you have added to this thread have been short, personal asides - unrelated to the actual topic - and mostly in the form of further barbs directed at me.

Again, if you have nothing further to say about the subject, and if you are true to your promise above to stop posting in this thread, then please do so.

Cheers, Terry

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[Bruenor]

Just a friendly reminder for everyone that personal attacks are against forum policies. Heated debates are fine and all, but please stick to the topic at hand.

This is just a general reminder and not pointed at anyone in particular, but this is a good time to bring this up seeing the rapid degradation of this paricular thread.