We have been screwed bigtime.....

[chip5541]

WASHINGTON (AP) - With the economy on the brink and elections looming, Congress approved an unprecedented $700 billion government bailout of the battered financial industry on Friday and sent it to President Bush for his certain signature.

The final vote, 263-171 in the House, a comfortable margin that was 58 more votes than it garnered on Monday. The vote capped two weeks of tumult in Congress and on Wall Street, punctuated by daily warnings that the country confronted the gravest economic crisis since the Great Depression if lawmakers failed to act.

Bush was poised to make a statement on the historic vote.

Well folks, That's it. The US government now on the path to socialism. We have been betrayed by both the Republicans and Democrats all for the mighty dollar.

"How can we have capitalism on the way up and socialism on the way down," said Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leader among conservative Republicans who oppose the central thrust of the legislation—an unprecedented federal intervention into the private capital markets.

Simple... you can't.

Pelosi said, "We must win it for Mr. and Mrs. Jones on Main Street."

You should have thought of this before we got into this situation you dumb :censored: :censored: . Instead when it was brought up several times in teh past years your side called them racist and claimed they were trying to lynch people. You and your ilk should be a shamed of yourselves.

Rep. Elijah Cummings and Donna Edwards, both Maryland Democrats, were among them. They said Obama had pledged if he wins the White House that he would help homeowners facing foreclosure on their mortgages. He also pledged to support changes in the bankruptcy law to make it less burdensome on consumers.

"It's not too often you get the future president telling you that his priority matches your priority," said Cummings.

You stupid :censored: :censored:!! If you listened to Obama, every GD thing is a priority to him when he wants something done. I swear some of the people in teh black caucus are :censored: stupid.

They have betrayed the American people, our children and the principles of the founding fathers. Elections are coming up and this betrayal will not be forgotten.

[Lou Cypher]

From what I understand, is that the U.S. Government is supplying to every taxpayer, as part of this bailout package, a tube of K-Y!

Lou :globe:

[Rob]

There are two situations in which the government is getting the money, either the tax payers or by taking a loan out themselves. Guess what, they are taking the loan from China, which means even more of our money is going to pay off an even larger amount of interest. Forget principal, just interest. Which is ironically one of the reasons we are in the financial mess to begin with.

Both home buyers and loan sharks... and that is what they are, are at fault. The only way people will really learn is if you let them fail, and this is one of those times. So much needs to change in our country, but bailing them out just prolongs the inevitable and fixes nothing.

As far as principals of our founding fathers, they were slave owners who wanted to be free, and despite declaring that all men were created equal, it really meant just the few they had selected. So, right off the bat, principals or our founding fathers has a lot of issues.

f you listened to Obama, every GD thing is a priority to him when he wants something done. I swear some of the people in teh black caucus are :censored: stupid.

They have betrayed the American people, our children and the principles of the founding fathers. Elections are coming up and this betrayal will not be forgotten.

First, is McCain any different? No, he isn't. But this isn't just Obama or McCain, in what election has this ever been different? If anyone has ever felt that we were or have been a democracy they are wrong. We have always been a socialist, capitalist oligarchy. And that is not going to change.

[chip5541]

I only mentioned Obama because of this quote in the article. When I read it it was like GIVE ME A BREAK! "his priority matches your priority" only when he wants something from you. You will notice I blamed both Republicans and Democrats. Both are dumber than a box of freakin rocks and I wanted to GD puke when I saw Palosi and Barney Frank come out all smiles. Tell me that didn't piss more than a few people off.

[Terry Penrod]

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Ugh, this whole disgusting mess was a total failure on the part of both parties in Congress, the Bush administration and appointed financial-industry officials / government regulators - along with a VERY long list of greedy brokers, bankers, investors and yes, even the little guys who signed long-term mortgage agreements on homes three times the size they needed or could afford.

It was a complete feeding frenzy from top to bottom fueled by pure unadulterated greed, outright stupidity and mindnumbing shortsightedness.

Did all these idiots really think we could keep a frickin' nationwide pyramid scheme going forever? Con games like this ALWAYS fail and EVERYONE with an IQ over 40 damn well knows it.

There are NO excuses for the sheer insanity and selfishness of running headlong down such an obvious dead-end path individually, as a supposedly sophisticated market or as a country.

As sickening as the bailout plan is, at least we got a few minor concessions like severe restrictions on payouts to Wall Street executives, far better government oversight with some real checks / balances, a badly needed increase to the FDIC limit and a couple of (admittedly porkbarrel) attachments that might actually help a few deserving people who did nothing wrong.

Cheers, Terry

[Kalbrecht]

Bloody idiots. Yay bailouts. If it works, we'll get a slightly softer landing (snort). If it doesn't, then hey...a bankrupt government would be nice, eh?

*takes a look at the younger generation* I hope you guys enjoy paying this off in future!

Oh well, time to see if I can find a nice deal on a second hand luxury house? Maybe a nice luxury car? Only 1 owner - a former banker who thought he was king sh*t?

[Terry Penrod]

.

There is one possible scenario that could produce positive results Chai. One that Bill Clinton mentioned a couple of weeks ago - of all places - on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

Clinton reminded us that during America's great depression, the U.S. government bought up a huge number of failed mortgages that actually made money for the taxpayers in the long run.

The big difference is that (so far) our political leaders have not seen fit to include a major legal option - for judges to rewrite mortgage loans to be more affordable, so at least some homeowners can hang in there instead of declaring bankruptcy and losing all equity in their primary residences.

Evidently, it was the combination of a massive bailout and this provision, along with eventual corrections to the market that allowed our economy to bounce back once all the heavy smoke had cleared. A few more people were able to ride things out and in the end, those failed mortgages yielded a nice profit when all the properties were resold for reasonable prices after the recovery.

Both key components have been talked about by Congress and the media. But only time will tell how this bailout deal will be implemented, how long the market might take to rebound, and whether or not a similar plan for loan payment reductions will be enacted.

Clinton also pointed out that in more recent years, our short-term bailout of the terribly devalued Mexican peso actually turned a profit too. Those loans were paid back in full with a hefty amount of interest.

Some time later, after the initial influx of foreign NAFTA investment created many new jobs in Mexico, their middle-class swelled and average pay / quality of life rose sharply in the central corridor. Too bad that China and India have since ruined that little party by seriously undercutting labor costs worldwide. But that's another topic for another day . . .

Cheers, Terry

[OldsterHolster]

I still have this gut feeling that this bailout is just "more of the same," and I seriously doubt that it will do much more than buy some time for the rich and greedy to cover their own asses. The rest of us had better "circle the wagons," because we are in a downhill slide of such mass and momentum that it's not going to change until we get to the bottom of the hill.

I know that Terry has been tormented by the blatant greed and power-mongering of those in control over the years, and I have watched it, too, and am totally disgusted. What is needed is change on the very basic level of moral values, and this bailout, while paying lip service to these issues, is not going to change a damned thing. The rich and powerful will be just fine, and, ironically, the very poor will not be much worse off, either, but everybody else is in for tough times for quite a while to come.

I've seen this situation coming for years, and I'm almost glad to see that it's finally here, because something has to change in the ways money flows in this country. Edward.

[Johnny Mullet]

Something I read posted by a member on an automotive forum................

Something that makes good sense:

I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00. The plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend."

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college – it’ll be there

Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car – create jobs

Invest in the market – capital drives growth

Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces. If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( “vote buy” ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+! As for AIG – liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t. Sure it’s a crazy idea that can “never work.” But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It Dividend" more than do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

[Rob]

Actually, I love the above quote, and I have seen it a few times being passed around in email and posted on message boards.

Even if we took the full bailout of 700 billion and not just the AIG portion of 85 billion, and divide it by the 200 million people, we get $3500, not $425,000 a person. And if you take their 85 billion quote, that is only $425 per person before taxes, not $425,000.

Not that I wouldn't want $3500 or even $425, but as far as offering a solution, and including the phrase "to make the math simple", and then completely screwing up the math, it up makes me laugh.

[OldsterHolster]

Yes, when I got that E-mail, I pulled up my calculator and quickly discovered someone had messed up their decimal point, big time. I was using a bailout figure of 750 billion, but it still just comes to under $4000 for every person.

While it's not the "get rich fast" results the E-mail suggests, I still say that it would do more good to the people that need it than bailing out the bastards that caused the whole damned mess in the first place. I guess you heard about the group of failed company executives who just spent another half million of investor's money in four days at some high-brow resort. WHY are these sonsabitches not in Azekaban dealing with Death Eaters, instead?

I'm just disgusted with all of it, and I'll be grealy surprised if we don't get a lot worse before anything really changes. It's time for the rich, greedy, and powerful, to come back down to Earth and take their lumps with the rest of us whom they have bled dry for all these years. F*** 'em, and the horse they rode in on. Edward.

[RangerRick]

and the horse they rode in on

Why take it out on the dumb horse? And that's only speading the blame to a dumb animal who really had no say so. :face9:

[OldsterHolster]

Why take it out on the dumb horse?

Because the horse is named "Unbridled Greed," sired by "Misuse of Power" and "Disregard for the Common Good." Edward.

[Terry Penrod]

.

And that hideously gluttonous horse is about to get fed another whopping pile of taxpayer cash because, you know... those poor beleaguered AIG executives need a few more cushy holiday junkets to rest and relax in the lap of luxury while the whole damned country goes to hell in a flaming handcart.

Christ, doesn't anybody in Washington, DC get the fact that every single working American is totally disgusted with them and their pampered fat-cat buddies right now?

Do we average citizens really need to threaten the violent overthrow of our own government complete with mass firing squads to get their attention?

It is truly sickening.

Cheers, Terry


AIG could get up to $37.8 billion more from Fed

By Edward Iwata and Kevin McCoy, USA TODAY

Less than a month after receiving an emergency $85 billion federal loan, crippled insurance titan American International Group (AIG) may borrow up to $37.8 billion more from the Federal Reserve.

Moving to stave off AIG's collapse, the Fed said Wednesday that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York will borrow up to $37.8 billion in investment-grade, fixed-income securities from AIG in return for cash collateral.

The Fed said that the new loan program "will allow AIG to replenish liquidity" used to settle earlier transactions with trading partners, while "providing enhanced credit protection" to taxpayers by holding AIG securities. The Fed also will charge interest on the transactions.

"This gives us the liquidity and flexibility we need to work on long-term solutions," says AIG spokesman Nick Ashooh.

The new loan comes after AIG said last week that it had already spent $61 billion of the first loan. CEO Edward Liddy told analysts that the money went to help AIG's securities lending business and finance other operations.

As the financial crisis worsened last month, the Fed made its first loan to AIG so it could ward off collapse and settle billions of dollars in payments to banks and other trading partners on high-risk insurance contracts.

AIG will sell assets to repay the two-year loan.

A failure of AIG could lead to $180 billion in losses and write-downs in financial markets worldwide on corporate loans, residential mortgages and debt-related investments, according to Hank Calenti of RBC Capital Markets.

Gary Ransom, an insurance industry analyst at Fox-Pitt Kelton, says the new loan program differs from the initial loan because the Federal Reserve Bank of New York will receive securities from AIG.

"Companies that borrowed stock from AIG, presumably to sell short, are putting the stock back to them for the return of (cash) collateral," Ransom says.

Ransom says the cash that AIG received from the borrowed stock was invested in "various securities that presumably have gone down in value," leaving the battered insurer without enough liquidity to pay back companies without selling the securities at a loss.

"It means that all the counter-parties are unwinding all their relationships with AIG," Ransom says. "It's just happening quickly."

Contributing: Sue Kirchhoff

FROM:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2008-10-08-aig-additional-fed-loan_N.htm

[Mara]

We can say it with our votes. And we all need to vote this election. I especially want to get those "blankety blank" legislators that added their pork barrel projects to the bailout bill! :mad:

[chip5541]

Everyone needs to send these nimrods a broken arrow

[Rob]

I especially want to get those "blankety blank" legislators that added their pork barrel projects to the bailout bill! I have always believed it should be illegal to add seperate projects to a bill. They should vote on one, and only one issue at a time.

[Kalbrecht]

Christ, doesn't anybody in Washington, DC get the fact that every single working American is totally disgusted with them and their pampered fat-cat buddies right now?

Terry, I think that there are some people there who DO get it - and are tring to manipulate (sorry, "correct") the market. By throwing even MORE virtual billions of dollars, they're trying to force a market correction and shore up investor confidence to slow the leaks.

At this level, and at this stage of market collapse, the numbers are so theoretical that it doesn't matter anymore what number they pull out of the air. Another trillion in debt to stave off immediate system wide bankruptcy?

WHY NOT! As long as we're not completely screwed now, and we can save some investor/voter confidence.

Heck, the IMF/World Bank can just plan a massive debt-cancellation scheme in a few years and we can start the merry go round again. And in a few years, I bet that the whole debt-cancellation comes up again in 'serious' debate.

[Ojnod]

If only we all had nintendo money printers like the banks...

http://www.dsfanboy.com/media/2007/07/dsstillprintsmoney-ak.jpg

[Terry Penrod]

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Terry, I think that there are some people there who DO get it - and are tring to manipulate (sorry, "correct") the market. By throwing even MORE virtual billions of dollars, they're trying to force a market correction and shore up investor confidence to slow the leaks.

At this level, and at this stage of market collapse, the numbers are so theoretical that it doesn't matter anymore what number they pull out of the air. Another trillion in debt to stave off immediate system wide bankruptcy?

WHY NOT! As long as we're not completely screwed now, and we can save some investor/voter confidence.

Heck, the IMF/World Bank can just plan a massive debt-cancellation scheme in a few years and we can start the merry go round again. And in a few years, I bet that the whole debt-cancellation comes up again in 'serious' debate.


I understand all that Chai and it boggles the mind. But I was referring specifically to the appalling act of AIG executives going on that luxury retreat immediately after we taxpayers saved their butts to the tune of $85 billion - as if they deserved a nice reward for screwing up so badly. I was also referring to the sickening prospect that, upon learning about this obscenely blatant act of selfishness, our wise and wonderful government leaders decided that AIG ought to get another $30+ billion to help prop up that company - under the control of the very same greedy pigs that made all those terrible investments in the first place.

Good Lord, those executives shouldn't be rewarded. They should be stripped of every penny they have and fired (if not prosecuted).

Cheers, Terry

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[Egret]

I think anyone who makes it that high in any financial institution is inherently ruled by greed. I would not be surprised if every sincle financial CEO out there is corrupt. In fact, I would expect it.

Just my 1.5 cents.

[Terry Penrod]

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And a very good penny-and-a-half it is Egret.

But just because corruption is generally expected in those lofty circles doesn't mean we should like it - let alone foot the bill for its devastating effects on the country.

At the very least, these people should not be extravagantly rewarded for their transgressions.

Cheers, Terry

[Egret]

I expect the corruption, but I definately don't like it. I honestly think we should have killed the bailout and let wallstreet fall on it's lofty nose. Yeah, we would have dropped into a depression, but we're headed there already. And maybe it would have taught them to be more careful. Maybe it would have taught us to be more careful, too. I would have liked to have been able to vote on that bailout. If we were a true democracy, the working man should have been allowed to vote on it.

[chip5541]

Shame there wasn't more than the few that stood their ground and said no to teh bailout.

[Terry Penrod]

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Ron Paul has been arguing against this sort of big government intervention all along. Problem is he wants few if any controls and that means a completely free, profit-motivated economy and society. IMO that would beget massive violations of trust and lead to a total free-for-all with no real protections for the little guy.

I suppose the question is, do we want uncontrolled corporate masters running everything or a buffer of government oversight (which also caters to big money interests). Both systems promote corruption and we're basically screwed in either case.

So what would work better? Monarchies and dictatorships are NOT the way to go and pure socialism can not be applied fairly to large, diverse populations. They also tend to become very corrupted before long. Total anarchy is insane too.

That's why I have concluded the best system available for America is the one we've got. It does need stricter controls in certain areas though to assure better accountability / transparency. It also requires much more ongoing participation by the average person.

As always, it comes down to battling ignorance, greed and apathy. Two and possibly all three could be addressed with better schools - which IMO is a terribly weak aspect of our country today. We need massive overhauls to our public education system at every level in a fully coordinated effort that spans everyone from the very top to the very bottom.

Here's the bottom-line: America must do a lot better at preparing ALL kids to compete in the 21st century and to be decent citizens that will take an active interest in their government. If we fail to fix this huge problem, the USA will fall deeper and deeper into the abyss and become a second-class nation.

I ask that all of you research this issue thoroughly and then contact your local school boards, government representatives and media to take part in a growing grass-roots movement to make our schools more effective. Get informed, get involved and get heard now. Waiting another generation to get started will be too late.

Cheers, Terry

[chip5541]

U.S. Pledges Top $7.7 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=arEE1iClqDrk&refer=home

What the.... Why do we not have these peoples heads on a stick?

[Rob]

Because they finance the politicians. America needs to fall flat on its face. America needs to reshape its way of thinking in many matters, and most definitely in finances. Instead, we are bailing people out, what happens next year when nobody learns their lesson?