"Games for Windows"

[Mr. Natural]

I’m probably late to the party, but after picking up a couple of the latest pc gaming magazines and a visit to a local computer store I find Microsoft is really committing to the PC as a gaming platform.

“Games for Windows” is born. I’m not talking just about the magazine, but the store kiosk’s which are or will be coming out and the marketing campaign as a whole.

Is it coincidence that this is now coming about now that Vista is soon to be released? Perhaps. But I do like that fact the Microsoft is making a commitment to PC gaming and we can put fears to rest that pc gaming is dying.

[SwaroG]

Allegedly, Gears of War is coming to PC.

[Ojnod]

I’m probably late to the party, but after picking up a couple of the latest pc gaming magazines and a visit to a local computer store I find Microsoft is really committing to the PC as a gaming platform.

“Games for Windows” is born. I’m not talking just about the magazine, but the store kiosk’s which are or will be coming out and the marketing campaign as a whole.

Is it coincidence that this is now coming about now that Vista is soon to be released? Perhaps. But I do like that fact the Microsoft is making a commitment to PC gaming and we can put fears to rest that pc gaming is dying.

No coincidence, I think they really want their whole "live" concept to really work and the PC can't be left out of the loop. Games for Windows seems like a great idea since people regularly dismiss PC gaming since they have no clue whether or not a game will run on their systems. Hopefully with the new rating systems even the most computer illiterate people will be able to figure out what "number" their PC is and make sure that the game they are purchasing will run on that number. As stupid as it may sound I love the achievement concept that the 360 uses and I can't wait for that to come to the PC.

[Shoboy]

I see it as a marketing scheme for something that has always needed one but never got it. Everyone knows that gaming on a PC is where REAL innovation and creativity happens. It's all a matter of SALES that dictates weither or not that creativity and innovation gets used. Now that the platform has the marketing behind it that the simple platforms do, we will see a resurgence in sales and 'market share'.......

As for the timing, it's all about Vista. Anything that pushes the new OS is going to get steady hype and attention. M$ is, arguably, putting Vista as the best thing for the PC yet. Despite the upfront showing of the platform, M$ knows that a very large portion of the evolution of the PC happens in the games market. Gaming is what pushes the entire platform forward at the speed that it's been happening. It's just sad that it's taken this long for the recognition.

[Nyghtfall]

Allegedly, Gears of War is coming to PC.

Don't tease me.

:(:

EDIT: Just called Alienware to find out whether or not I'd be able to upgrade to the GeForce 8 series GPUs. They said not without upgrading my motherboard and adding a minumum 750 WATT power supply.

:scared:

I can, however, upgrade to a dual-card SLI config of the 7900 or 7950.

[Rafal Dudek]

EDIT: Just called Alienware to find out whether or not I'd be able to upgrade to the GeForce 8 series GPUs. They said not without upgrading my motherboard and adding a minumum 750 WATT power supply.

:wtf:

What kind of power supply do you currently have? I doubt that video card needs all that power

[Nyghtfall]

:wtf:

What kind of power supply do you currently have? I doubt that video card needs all that power

650 WATT. Came standard.

[Rafal Dudek]

you definitely dont need a new power supply. I think alienware just wants you to spend more money on them.

[Kane]

You can run a GEForce 8 using 450Watt power supply. You only need a 750 Watt for GEforec 8 SLI mode.

[Nyghtfall]

You only need a 750 Watt for GEforec 8 SLI mode.

And that's precisely what I'd want to be able to do. I'd still need a new motherboard, which is completely out, so... I'm currently planning on upgrading to a 512Mb GeForce 7800 GTX PCIE and buying another for a dual-card config.

I've been doing some extensive research on the new G80s and DirectX10. Simply put, the G80's are designed to take on more of the processing power currently being handled by the CPU so that it's no longer just a high-end renderer, while taking advantage of the new shader 4.0 tech available via DirectX10. The G80 is also now the only card capable rendering both HDR and AA at the same time instead of forcing gamers to choose between the two. Interestingly, the difference in image quality is actually quite negligible. In the screenshot on this page (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6161267/index.html), I can't even see a difference without looking at the zoomed section of the tower.

I've also just learned that, while D3DX will only be available via Vista, Microsoft will be offering backward compatibility with D3D9 hardware by bundling a new D3D 9.0L version with Vista. I won't be even considering an upgrade until SP1 or 2 of Vista though. Additionally, while D3DX will offer new shader power, developers have yet to even scratch the surface of what can still be done with shader 3.0 and D3D 9.0c.

Here's a perfect example of what can still be done with current tech. This is an in-game (aka not pre-rendered) image of a creature from Unreal Tournament 2007, using D3D 9.0c:

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/p_bezerker.jpg

More examples here (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml).

For kicks, I've just bought an advanced version of 3DMark 2006 for $20 at FutureMark.com (http://www.futuremark.com). My system was benchmarked with 3DMark 2005 before it was shipped to me. Here are the burn-in/benchmark numbers. I once called Alienware to learn that these benchmarks were run at 1024x768:

Game Tests:

3DMark Score: 7,327.00 3DMarks
GT1 - Return To Proxycon: 30.65 FPS
GT2 - Firefly Forest: 21.53 FPS
GT3 - Canyon Flight: 38.15 FPS

CPU Tests:

CPU Score: 5,512.00 CPUMarks
CPU Test 1: 2.98 FPS
CPU Test 2: 4.54 FPS

I'm curious to see how much of a difference there will be in the scores between the two versions, especially now that I've had my PC for nearly a year. I'll post the results of my tests later.

EDIT: My 3DMark 2006 Test Results (1024x768, no AA):

Game Tests:

3DMark Score: 5229
GT1 - Return to Proxycon 17.394 fps
GT2 - Firefly Forest 19.064 fps

HDRSM3.0 Score: 2264
HDR1 - Canyon Flight 19.326 fps
HDR2 - Deep Freeze 25.957 fps

CPU Score: 1559 CPUMarks
CPU1 - Red Valley 0.510 fps
CPU2 - 0.763 fps

[bmn]

The G80 is also now the only card capable rendering both HDR and AA at the same time instead of forcing gamers to choose between the two.
I was under the impression that ATi's X1 series could do that. Actually, I'm positive about it, just ask Zed (he's done it in Oblivion).

[Kane]

I think he's probably refering for Nvidia cards only. NyghtFall, sorry to say but those awesome creature renders do look nice....when there's nothing to render around it. I remember having this werewolf demo for GeForce 4 Ti which was quite impressive as it could simulate fur. Unfortunately, in conditions where there are dozens of enemies on screen, lots of chaos on screen, etc. it would be impossible to have that kind of awesome graphics.The power supply requirement for these cards are ridiculous as well. 750W?!
The fact that DX10 is exclusive to Vista is another slap to gamers face. I'm not gonna blindly get a new PC with a DX10 loaded XP knowing that half my software won't be able to run because it's a new platform. Like you said I'll wait out until they get the service Packs rolling. Heck I won't be surprised if MS makes some kinda patch to unlock DX10 functions of XP. They can claim DX10 uses a new driver architecture but we all know it's just lip service.

[Nyghtfall]

I think he's probably refering for Nvidia cards only.

Yup.

NyghtFall, sorry to say but those awesome creature renders do look nice....when there's nothing to render around it.

In-game screens (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/unrealtournament2007/screenindex.html) (again, not pre-rendered).

Gameplay Movie (http://www.nyghtfall.com/ut2007/ut2007_tr_0622m1_qt.mov)

I remember having this werewolf demo for GeForce 4 Ti which was quite impressive as it could simulate fur. Unfortunately, in conditions where there are dozens of enemies on screen, lots of chaos on screen, etc. it would be impossible to have that kind of awesome graphics.

You do realize that the GeForce 4 series came out over 6 years ago? I used to oown a GeForce4 Ti 4600.

The power supply requirement for these cards are ridiculous as well. 750W?!

The card itsef doesn't need a whole 750W. That's how much I'd need for my entire system with the G80.

[Shoboy]

something not many people have brought up, in various disscusions in other forums I lurk in, is that a GAMERS upgrade to Vista/dx10/g80-soon_to_be ati equivilant, is that it's a total system upgrade, new tower................here's the not so often spoken part, KEEP YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM RUNNING!!!!

I've seen so many people say that they need a new mobo/cpu/ram/videocard for a GAMERS upgrade to Vista............this is basically a whole new tower.

Why do so many people talk of doom and gloom, stuff wont work, games wont run right, yadda yadda yadda, when they talk about switching to Vista WITH AN UPGRADE? It does not matter as long as you keep your current rig going......

Not everyone is in the same position I am, but come one, how many keyboards, mice, monitors, speakers, ect...... do MOST people have laying around??????

I'll have this system until it stops working.

I'll have my new Vista/dx10/G80 sli'd system running pretty much right next to it.

No worries about anything now........

[Nyghtfall]

here's the not so often spoken part, KEEP YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM RUNNING!!!!

Great idea, but I've only enough space in my living room for one PC. Besides, now that I know that Vista won't keep me from playing next-gen games, I'm no longer worried about upgrading. I want to upgrade to Vista, but not until after SP1 or 2 come out. My only concern was hardware compatibility with my graphics card. Since MS will be bundling a new version of D3D 9 with Vista, alongside D3D 10, I can rest easy. My PC should be more than adequate for gaming for the next several years.

[Rafal Dudek]

I'd still need a new motherboard

Why? If you can run SLI on your current mobo, you wont need an upgrade...

[Nyghtfall]

Why? If you can run SLI on your current mobo, you wont need an upgrade...

My current mobo can't support a 750W power supply.

[Rafal Dudek]

eh? thats a first I've ever heard. Those 1000W power supplies exited last year when I was building my system, I dont see how your mobo cant support it. Most of the power your video card needs comes directly from the power supply throught he cable connections...

[Chylde Roland]

I was under the impression that ATi's X1 series could do that. Actually, I'm positive about it, just ask Zed (he's done it in Oblivion).
That is true, my friend. I did it with my X1600 and I'm doing it currently with my X1900.

Oblivion looks absolutely amazing with both features active. :yes:

[Kalbrecht]

eh? thats a first I've ever heard. Those 1000W power supplies exited last year when I was building my system, I dont see how your mobo cant support it. Most of the power your video card needs comes directly from the power supply throught he cable connections...

'zactly. Sounds suspicious. A motherboard that "supports" a 650W can do 750W. Unless it's a special proprietary power supply, which is complete bull-spit, then.

On-topic - I love the Games for Windows branding. It allows for better segmentation for the market with some intelligent branding.

[CrimsonKnight13]

My current mobo can't support a 750W power supply.

Mobos can handle any PSU that they'd work with. There are no maximum PSU rating for motherboards. You've been told a big lie with that. A motherboard only takes as much power as the components that are on it. No limits except for what the PSU can pipe out.

[Kane]

You do realize that the GeForce 4 series came out over 6 years ago? I used to oown a GeForce4 Ti 4600.


Yes, but what I'm trying to say is developers will try to entice you by showing tech demos which mean nthing in real world gaming. Also UT2007 being pushed back to 2007 clealy tells that DX9 cards may not be fast enough to run the game. At least that's the impression I get.

[CrimsonKnight13]

Kane,

I'd definitely agree with you but I think that would have to do with maximum quality in D3D10. They're probably optimizing it now that the 8800GTX is out.

[Mr. Natural]

I just checked in thinking I've created a great discussion only to find some major thread jacking.

:mad:

Who the hell is supposed to be keeping threads on track around here?

[CrimsonKnight13]

Where has it gone wrong? Games for Windows is based on new hardware, D3D10, and Vista.